Maths - Do i talk to the teacher?

[XXXOOXXX]

Evening

I believe that the school are failing my son particularly in Maths. He is on the G&T register - which as far as i can see is pointless.

He is in yr 4 - and goes into yr 5 of his Maths lessons (where he is top of the class in the last round of tests). He gets given the same work as the rest of the class but it is SO easy for him - and stuff he could do aged 6. At home he can easily complete a yr 6 SAT paper in half the time and gets 100% every time (and has been for the last year).

I am not sure that the school know how good at Maths he is because they just give him the stuff the rest of the class do (he is a sensitive quiet soul) - so they know he can do what they teach but seem to not think to try him on something harder/the next stage.

So do i talk to the teacher and show him some of the Maths papers he does at home? or just let them get on with it and continue with Maths at home?

Thank you

I'd mention it to the teacher, he/she should have something prepared for those with different skill levels really.

You're right, being on the G&T register is pointless...

BUT the school should be stretching your child. They get marked on this by Ofsted. Go in and ask them how they plan extension work for those who need to be stretched.

If he's doing the same class work as the rest for the most part I wouldn't be too worried, he has to cover all the topics after all. However he should also be provided with extension tasks for when his main work is done, at least, imho.

I am in a very similar situation. Dd, also Y4, is in the top group, but in Y4. It confuses me as if she is given work she can do easily how do they know her limits? I too have decided I'll have to go in to school and have a chat about it.
Even giving her extension work I don't think is the answer, because giving her a sheet with more difficult questions is not actually teaching her new things.

I would love her to be in the next year up at least, but wonder how this would fit into the timetable. Could I ask if it has caused problems with missing other classes?

I can't see the point in rushing through the year groups, I'm sorry.

It would also be a timetabling nightmare for her to do one subject with another year, as the chances of them having that subject at the same time might be slim.

Also richmal, she only has half a term to go, so she would miss out on 2.5 term's work of the year above. As a teacher I just can't see the sense in moving now.

Cakebump I was thinking more of sorting something out for next year rather than for the final half term of this.

That's also why I was asking how this works out from someone whose child actually does go into the next year up for one subject. I am genuinely trying to find solutions for a situation that is not working for dd.

xxxooxxx I'm intending to take in a KS2 test she's done at home to show what she can do. However if the school does agree she is so able at maths what can they do and what would I expect them to do? At the moment my answer to both these is, "I do not know," and I feel I should give this some consideration before speaking to them. So can I ask what your thoughts are on this? What would you want to see happen if you did speak to the teacher?

When you have a chat to the school might be worth asking what connection they have with secondary - our school has work sent over for the very bright ones to do.

DD2 went right through school like this and we had various fixes along the way. One year she would have a fabulous teacher who understood how to extend an able mathematician and then the next year a less confident one who wanted to make sure she was secure on the basics

I think if I went through it all again I would think about what I wanted for her as the end point - early GCSEs? Early A levels? or to retain a love of a maths and have a wide understanding of mathematical concepts that go beyond the syllabus. We ended up with the last one more by luck than design and DD2 is just finishing her first year at university studying Maths.

If you are trying to maintain a love of maths then enrichment is the way to go - this is a great website with challenging maths problems which starts at primary age nrich.maths.org/public/ and it also has a page of resources for supporting able mathematicians. I'd get onto the school and say you want extension work that extends the concepts being taught rather than your child just getting everything right.

I am very much with Webwiz. The end point is the most important. In my DS situation it has been better for him to be taught maths out with the syllabus with little regard given to levels, or GCSE or for that matter university material. He has just been allowed to go along at his own pace to enjoy the subject. He is now 13 and doing maths at A Level and beyond but he doesn't get tested and we have no plans on him sitting GCSE early. With regards moving up in classes, he did this at one point but I wouldn't push for it, much better to get the teachers on-side and letting your child progress through the levels at their own pace. With regards work coming from a senior school this is ok but you have to keep in mind that the teachers are PRIMARY teachers and they may not have the specialised knowledge needed to help your DC.

However, they should easily be able to assess and teach a child up to 6a, which should cater for most very able children.

Hi all - so sorry I have been away and had no access to the internet.

Some very interesting comments which have certainly given me food for thought.

Rich - It was the school who suggested that that my son went up a class - they all have Maths at the same time so this hasn't been a problem. However, thinking about it now (by reflecting on some of your comments) have they only moved him up because they are moving the problem from one teacher to another? - it is like they do not know what to do with him.

I am not sure what i would want to achieve by talking to the school - except for them to stop giving him ridiculous homework and stop trying to teach him the times tables !! - i want them to acknowledge and give him work for his individual level - and i would prefer that was done in his own class.

Well your aims XXXOOXXX are the same as what I wanted for DD2 - just to be able to work at her own level but in a class with her peers. We did get it some years but not others so we ended up with a sort of three steps forward two back approach.

I would talk to the school just to see what they say and to maybe put something in place for years 5 and 6. DD2 did Maths with year 6 in year 5 and then when she went into year 6 the school seemed surprised that she had covered the work and made her effectively repeat the year

I would go with how the child feels, if he's happy bumbling along and already well above target/average then fgs don't rock the boat, leave things as they are. Because if he races thru the curriculum what's he going to do for next 3 yrs when he's 13 & already thoroughly covered GCSE material? He's got the talent, he will be able to race away when it's appropriate.

I'd only push for acceleration if he was unhappy about it being too easy.

www.nagcbritain.org.uk/

may be able to help.

Telephone: 01908 646433 (phone lines are open on Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays 9am to 4.30pm)

"- i want them to acknowledge and give him work for his individual level" xxxoooxxx, I agree with you. I am fed up with dd spending 5 hours a week revising work she already knows.

If a teacher has over30 other children in their class I don't know how catering for one who is ahead could work. As I understand it, a lesson consists of explaining a topic then doing work on that topic. Would the teacher then be required to teach and set different work for those already ahead? Is this something that is reasonable to request, because it does seem difficult in a class of over 30 others to teach.

Webwiz, in years when the teaching went right, what did the teachers do? Did they set nrich type tasks? I would love dd to gain depth of interest by being set challenging maths problems. Would a teacher have time for this?

Also I can't see the problem in children going ahead in maths. Since Pythagoras, so mugh maths has been discovered I can't see dd running out of things to learn before she leaves school.

richmal in the years that it went right any extension work would be taking a topic much further so if for example it was year 8 finding missing angles she would complete the classwork and then do some much more complicated examples that were GCSE/A level standard. As it was done in the context of what the rest of the class were doing then I don't think it caused the teacher a huge amount of extra work When it didn't go well she would just get to do another 20 examples at exactly the same level!

Webwiz Thanks for the reply. Still not 100 percent sure of best course for dd, but this thread has given me some ideas of what to discuss with school.

Personally I love nrich, but find it most useful with small groups where the kids can talk about how they solved a problem (thus discovering the different ways it can be done) or can discuss how to go about solving a problem. In a class situation, where only one child is working on such a problem, I could see issues.

I prefer differentiation in class rather than moving classes, but often find that the top set differentiation is not sufficient for particular pupils.

I think Webwiz is spot on regarding what the end goal should be. A love of maths rather than a ridiculously early A*.

I have just found this
www.m-a.org.uk/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=250

As a link from another thread, perhaps your school might be interested.

KS3 teachers coming in to teach small groups also can work well - but this is unlikely to be for all 5 maths sessions each week.

Thank you all very much fir the links and your thoughts. I will look into these and then maybe talk to the school.

Our school streams across the school for maths so ds1 in year 4 mostly works with yr6 and some yr5. He's quite happy and likes the classes. Guess they'll have to try a bit harder in yr6 with him though

Maybe you should give the school some ideas. This:

www.mathcomp.leeds.ac.uk/individual-competitions/junior-challenge/

is the qualifying competition for the maths olympiad - the page linked above is for the up-to-year-8/9 competition, which should have a fair amount of challenge for him. Here's a past paper:

www.mathcomp.leeds.ac.uk/b_file.php?id=468

If he does really well on it then he gets invited to take part in the maths olympiad.

IIUC the school doesn't have to do anything much except sit him at the back of a room with the exam paper.

This was good:

The Growing Pains of a Teenage Genius
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0175ll3
Duration: 1 hour

"What do you do when your child is gifted and their academic ability has overtaken yours? In a lot of ways 13-year-old Cameron Thompson is a normal teenage boy - obsessed with computer games, sporting the first hints of a moustache and a newfound interest in girls. But he is also a maths genius who is currently doing an Open University degree in applied mathematics and it is this ability that has singled him out. That, and an intense social awkwardness his parents put down to his Asperger's Syndrome. Can Cameron balance the need to remain the genius he has always been - and therefore different - with the classic teenage longing to be accepted?"

despite the stupid title. You might be able to find it on Youtube or something...

Thank you Toaster - that paper looks great and I think there are a few things on there that he doesn't yet know and would like to understand.

Son is back at school tomorrow so i will try and make an appointment asap.

no worries. glad to be useful. :)

as far as I remember from the documentary, the expert advice was to give them 'broadening' activities outside of school, and find them a peer group of similarly-talented kids / kids with similar interests.

(rather than allowing them to push themselves through the mainstream exams as quickly as possible, which is obviously the temptation).

The UK Maths Trust look really useful, they can do things like find him a mentor

www.mathcomp.leeds.ac.uk/mentoring/

and I'm pretty sure there's a maths-summer-camp as well.

I'm sure it would be worth phoning them (number on the website) as they must be very used to relating to and helping kids in that situation.

Ploughing on up the years is peculiarly pointless, IMHO. Why learn a narrow syllabus faster when what they should be doing is learning a wider syllabus?

DS is in Y5, but age-wise should be in Y4. He consistently gets top marks in maths (in the top set who I am assured are now working well ahead of the others), but I would hate for him to go another year ahead just for maths - instead, he gets extension work related to what they are actually doing, and does stuff like the Junior Maths Challenge, and an inter-school competition. I would not, by any means, label him a genius, but he has been enabled to further his interest in maths so he doesn't get bored, without separating him from his peer group or singling him out. The only time he has complained of being "bored" was with a Y2 teacher who was very definitely not a maths specialist and tried to get him to use stupid recipe methods clearly struggled to provide him with extension work.

Hopefully this will continue next year when his current form teacher, who is also the head of maths, retires.

stealthsquiggle - i agree - and i do not want him to go up into yr 6 - however he IS bored of doing times tables and such like, that the others in the year are doing. I (and he) just want him to be given Maths to his ability. He ha spent the last year 'learning' the times table and 34x9 etc .... when he can easily do 1 5/6 x 1 1/5 divided by 1 1/5 (which he taught himself from a book)