Musically gifted/ late speech

[morethanpotatoprints]

Just thought I would post this as it may help others.

The following is open to a bit of debate as dh/ dds dad is a reknowned professional musician and music has been part of her culture from before birth.
However, dd very late to talk, no mumma, dadda and then one day aged three a complete sentence quite complex too. She went for therapy, had ears tested and the therapist asked about noises she had made if any. It then dawned on me that dd was always humming and could repeat perfectly the dawn chorus and background noises with perfect pitch. She was assessed by therapist who declared her g&t in music. I laughed really as both me and dh whilst encouraging music don't really go down the taking grades route. But at 9 she has aprox grade 5 standard on 4 instruments. Obviously including voice. I don't mean to boast but I know what its like to worry over a childs late speech development.

Thanks for sharing :) We need more stories like this! Just goes to show there's more to a person than what they're doing/not doing at the age of 2. Well done to your DD, she sounds amazing

I wouldn't call her amazing just a bit talented. The school haven't identified her as g&t as there is one girl in her class a full level above her academically. Also with her background and the fact she never stops singing or playing instruments obviously means she gets alot more practice than her peers, so she probably would be better. I would like to know more about g&t in music if anybody has any links from relevant British sites.
We are going back to SalT soon as there seem to be a few problems with phonetic sounds, I also wrote 9 above but she's 8, I think I had been reading another post and lost track of my own dd age, duh!.

Thanks for sharing. My dd2 is 6 and has ASD and severe language delay, we are not a musical family but dd2 loves music and has self taught to play several instruments (including the drums), she has been playing a keyboard all day, i wish i could find someone willing to teach her as i don't know a thing about music (can't read music).

Marne, you should be able to get lessons either privately through ads or recommendations, yellow pages, music shops etc. Or you could approach your school or LEA music service. If you live in an affluent area you will no doubt have good LEA services but I think most are ok/good these days. It seems a shame to give a naturally gifted child lessons but we went down this route to give her opportunities.

The dd's school teaches drums but wont teach her until she's in key stage 2 (7/8), her sister has piano lessons and dd2 watches her practice and then coppies when dd1 has finished. I will ask again at school.

I'm confused. On the home ed thread you've said she's not gifted and only plays three instruments and two are at a basic level. Having a musician in the family you will know that grade 5 on one instrument at age 8 is exceptional and not a basic level so are the other grades higher? Your posts seem to contradict one another.

PrisonerOfWind. I guess it depends on how you look at it. DD hasn't taken any exams yet so some would say well shes nothing special (especially those that go down the route of learning 3 pieces, pass exam then onto the next) As this is the attitude I seem to encounter mostly I don't think she's so exceptional. Grade 5 standard isn't exceptional anyway as you'll find the protege has this sometime around 4 or 5. The other instrument she plays is saxophone but as she has just started that and although she practices a bit its the last on her list at present. I don't really count it, apart from the fact she improvises correctly without being shown. But once again she hears it enough.
What I find strange and that I would like more info about is the possible link with talent in music and late speech development. I'm sorry if my posts are confusing I didn't set out to be. Personally I believe dd has a talent but not exceptional apart from say the perfect pitch bit. We are beginning some exams soon but don't think that will give me any answers.

Well if your daughter is around grade 5 at age 8 on four instruments she would qualify easily for a placeat a specialist music school and she'd also get into a JD now. I know a grade 3 bassoonist at the RCM and he is in Year 3. Not being a protege does not mean a child is not very gifted - there are degrees of giftedness.

As for speech, well I don't think you can decide on one case that there is a link between delayed speech and musicianship. That's not been the case for my son and most of my musical friends children. If anything, most gifted children speak very early but not every gifted child. Einstein didn't speak until he was four.

No disrespect Prisonerofwind, I'm sure you know what you are talking about but specialist music school is not really the route we wanted to take, she gets this at home really as there is a steady supply of inspiring musicians and tutors, some of whom work at specialist schools and jds. She also enjoys dance and wouldn't want to give this up. Perhaps a jd would be a good idea when she's older as she sort of has her mind set on this. I think she is talented with the pitch thing and listening skills, but would have these if she didn't play or sing. She often gets 100% in Aural tests teachers, dh, and I have given her, and one teacher did grade 8 tests with her. Part of me is trying to resist exams because I think it is a way of putting kids off something they enjoy. Mucking about and playing for fun seems to help them develope a love of music. I can see why other routes are a preference to other parents though.

I wasn't suggesting music school but I was saying that at her apparent level she'd get in so you can't say she's not gifted. I'm sure you are aware that she is though with a musician in your home.

I do find your posts very odd.

Hi, PrisonerofWind, I'll take odd, as many friends say I'm a bit unconventional. I still find it hard to look at dd as gifted in music as she is so well practised, ok she picks things up relatively easy and loves music. When I see the well polished kids on tv playing music it is not the same as dd playing, this is one reason I don't buy into g&t as a multi instrumentalist. There may be something in the fact she could sing before talking though. So if the speech therapist was right and she is gifted or g&t then that would be because of the pitch not instruments played as she hadn't started any pre school. From what I've read though gifted tends to mean academic subjects and talented a group of art subjects, not just one discipline.

None of the labels matter. How many gifted and talented adults do you know? None! They are just musicians, or doctors, or bankers or lawyers.

Late speech, full sentences when child does speak and gifted in music does ring bells with me, though not many. I've worked with two children who had this pattrn, both girls and both very accomplished violinists.
Will try to find some research as you've sparked my curiosity !

OK - try Commumicative Musicality by S Murcoch (Oxford Press HB £68)

Wow thank you RoemaryandThyme. DD loves her violin and there must have been some reason why the therapist mentioned the relation. Wish I had taken more notice but she was only a tot

"How many gifted and talented adults do you know? None! They are just musicians, or doctors, or bankers or lawyers."

I know g&t adult musicians, doctors, hmm .. bankers or lawyers .. may be...

The label is really important if you come from a low income family or areas of depravation as it helps you apply for funding, grants and awards to allow participation. Talent needs to be nurtured irrespective of how much money your parents earn

I think you have a very interesting theory! DH & I are both accomplished musicians, although I don't have perfect pitch only relative. DD was very late to speak too and only narrowly avoided the speech therapy route (through our insistence). Again she is no prodigy at age 9 mainly through a lack of decision about her main instrument. She will go and pick up any instrument and play it with little or no teaching. She did Grade 2 recorder 18 months ago & got distinction. If I had to suggest a grade for her now it would probably be grade 4, but like your dd she is not trained to pass exams. If she were I could quite easily see her picking up any instrument and reaching grade 2 within a term.
I wonder if any research has been done on this? Very interesting

Pugsandseals. Lovely to hear we share similar traits in our dds music. It is difficult trying to get dd to choose a main instrument, she tends to be all for the one she is playing at that time. Then she practices the other an its that one that she apparently is going to use to gain title YMOTY. Bless her confidence!!!! Then she plays piano because it is there, not because it belongs to her, its for her Dads teaching. I personally don't think passing grades gives much indication of talented and quite often on these threads there are G&T children gaining scholarships at 11 at grade 2. They are clearly judged on musical ability. I too would be interested in any research if you or any one else finds any.

Hi everyone, especially morethanpotatoprints. My job is working with special needs children in a comprehensive school. I understand that "g and t" is not always about high academic achievement. So it is not surprising for a child to have exceptional musical gifts but be delayed in another aspect of development. That is why g. and t. children officially fall into the SEN category. So I think it is important that the SENCO in your dc's school is fully aware so that the school can give what help may be available or at least be aware of your dc's needs.

Mynack, thank you so much. You are truly a caring professional. I have spoken to dds school and basically they aren't interested as she doesn't have a problem in their eyes. It was practically suggested that I was wasting their time. I haven't posted the true picture on here as it is g*t but dd has lots of problems that school don't want to know about as in sats last year she was level 2A and 3 for reading. Her sounds are terrible, she is in a fog/ daze alot of the time. I have posted quite a bit in education ref: phonics. Why can't all school SENCO be this nice, thanks.

very happy to know that you found my thoughts helpful, morethanpotatoprints. Would you like to give a bit more detail, e,g,how old is dd? when did you first feel concerned that her reading was out of synch with her musical talents? is she in a good group of friends her own age? how does her reading age compare with theirs? etc. I'd be very happy to think about all this some more.(I'm actually completely new to Mumsnet , and I think i would probaly have been labelled as g and t as a child myself, i.e. academic/musical, but I'm well into middle age ,so no-one at the time ever told me I was at all unusual).As someone else said recently on Mumsnet, Einstein was a late reader too and it didn't do him any harm I suppose. He was dyslexic of course but i don't suppose anyone realized that until decades into his career!

PS to my last message, MTPP, sorry, you did say your dd was 8, nearly 9, but I would be interested anyway to know about how she fits into her peer-group.

Hello mynack, I hope I haven't misled you only its only the music where dd is talented really. She is certainly not gifted in class. We haven't had levels this year , she is slightly above average according to teachers, but I'm convinced she's dyslexic. I notice sounds such as ai, ea, oa, she regularly spells wrong but can read. Today she wrote tost (toast) Ples (please). She writes like she talks e.g tabul, cher (chair) and says f instead of th quite often. Sometimes its like shes not here, off in her own world. I can relate to this and have learned over the years to shake myself out of it. I am dyslexic and dyspraxic and for want of a better expression very slow at things. Only recently has she been consistent in letters being the write way round, and still occasionally uses baby letters a not ay. Reading music is a problem, sight reading is awful but her voice is unbelievable. I believe she has memorised the notes to pieces she is playing for violin exam next week. Other than a very dry sense of humour sometimes considered close to the mark by adults as she is beyond her years, theres not much more. She is very confident and doesn't bother much, quite laid back. Popular at school and has close friends but at any other school I think she'd be considered weird as she isn't really conventional. The size of this I should pm. Thank you so much for your interest.