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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

How long do you let them 'cruise'?

55 replies

kistigger · 01/05/2012 15:51

I feel that DD is cruising at school. Apart from the all important 'socialisation' skills DD has not learned anything in school or nursery since she started (3 years now). (I'm not saying those skills aren't important just that I was expecting an 'all-round' kind of education!!) The fact that she is still ahead shows how far ahead she was in the first place and how much we have done at home. If she was not keeping up with the class we would get called in to discuss the fact she was cruising and not making any progress. Surely this should be the case for children at the top too, to continue to make progress and achieve their potential?! Or am I asking too much?

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kistigger · 02/05/2012 21:47

I am working on my degree (mostly English) before I do a primary PGCE. I have always believed that the method that mumbles refers to as being the best for all age groups in primary to learn best from. Linking subjects, giving more opportunity for seeing real life applications, more options for extended work. I simply don't understand why schools choose to go down the boring route of individual subjects with barely any time/thought put into how they can make it all interesting for the kids! My personal belief is that a good teacher should be able to make watching paint dry or grass grow interesting!!! High standards... perhaps that's why none of them can match up to it... but I do at least think they should try!!!

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madwomanintheattic · 02/05/2012 22:36

tis why we ponder home ed at alarming intervals lol.

i tried a teaching degree once...

mumblesmum · 02/05/2012 22:38

I agree kistigger. The subject approach was used when QCA schemes of work were brought in about 10 years ago, and, for Ofsted purposes, we had to count to the minute (I kid you not!) how long we were teaching each subject per week and per year.
I really like the way teaching has gone over the last few years with the creative curriculum, and hope that it never goes back to subject teaching. It was a ridiculous way to teach young children, all of whom are in the process of developing an understanding of the world which requires them to link ideas, skills and knowledge.

Good luck with your degree (and PGCE!).

madwomanintheattic · 02/05/2012 22:45

they still do it here.

in our last school they had two minutes on to each school day (i kid you not( because of a shortage somewhere. and it's v much death by worksheet per subject.

kistigger · 02/05/2012 22:53

They still do it at ours too, how come someone forgot to tell them it was no longer required and to start being creative before the entire class die of boredom??? In ours it is death by literacy... an hour of phonics and an hour or 'literacy' each day is just overkill Angry

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kistigger · 02/05/2012 22:54

madwoman was it that bad (the teaching degree)???? Am I letting myself in for a fate worse than death??!!!

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madwomanintheattic · 02/05/2012 23:06

oh, it was a 4yr QTS. i think a one year pgce after degree would be a different kettle of fish. Grin
i just lost my idealism, i think. (was pe and eng, secondary. it was the pe bit that killed it dead, not the eng, honest)
and i became v disillusioned with the teaching practices. obv the idea was to get you into as many different sorts of schools as poss, but it became rapidly apparent that in most of them, there could be no creativity in teaching, as for the best part, the students couldn't even speak english, and there was little or no ESL support. my TPs were y2. Grin dd1 subsequently attended a not dissimilar school, but there was a brilliant ESL dept, and it made the world of difference. i do wonder what would have happened if the TPs had been different.
definitely my issue, (apart from the PE thing), so twas not for me.

kistigger · 03/05/2012 13:27

Aaaahhh... I copied my post cos the website was carrying out maintanence earlier and then i forgot and copied something else... so now my message is lost!!!!!!! And it was such a good one...... raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. I f I remember what I said, I'll type it again, but right now my mind is drawing a great big blank!

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mumblesmum · 03/05/2012 18:38

I did a one year PGCE and it burnt a lot of midnight oil! These days, as long as you can find a supportive school (i.e. one that doesn't use many worksheets or do 2 hours of literacy a day (BTW do they do guided reading on top of that??!)) the GTP is a better bet.

One major thing the PGCE didn't prepare me for was classroom management - it took me years to 'catch up'. Good classroom management is necessary before any good teaching and learning can take place, so it's of paramount importance! The GTP gives you this experience.

FWIW, I also found that employers didn't rate PGCE applicants because of their lack of hands-on experience (by their own admission at interviews), and now, on the other side of the table, we would certainly look more favourably at a GTP applicant.

madwomanintheattic · 03/05/2012 21:17

I looked at GTP but there are a lot of countries that don't recognise it as a teaching qualification, including the one I now live in, lol. it is a shame, as the theory is good, but I couldn't risk not being qualified when we moved.

mumblesmum · 03/05/2012 21:38

Really? I didn't know that.

Perhaps they're worried about the comparative standards of the training schools.

madwomanintheattic · 03/05/2012 22:35

Not sure. It was a bit of a shame, I was already working as an LSA at the time and had been to all the formal stuff, it seemed ideal. But then right at the end (as part of the selling package lol) I was given a list of countries that did recognise it. Not the one I needed. Grin so I had to pull out of the application process. It's a shame that they hadn't made that point earlier, as I'd driven about an hour and a half to the thing and spent about 3 months putting my application together, and getting agreement from the school etc, and up until that point it had been 'recognised internationally'.... Hmm. Ah well, you live and learn.

Good luck with it anyway, kistigger!

kistigger · 04/05/2012 14:21

My friend who is training to be a teacher in Spain said that over there they generally won't accept any teacher training from the UK cos the standards are not high enough!!!

madwoman where are you then?? Can you remember what other countries were/weren't accepting it??

Yes GTP is probably preferable in many respects but if I say that, too often people don't have a clue what I am chatting about, so I say PGCE in a general sense!!!

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madwomanintheattic · 04/05/2012 15:18

I'm in Canada now. Can't remember tbh... We knew we were likely to be here at some point with dh's work. Pgce etc is recognised, you just need to send off your cents etc and get registered, but GTP isn't. I think they are probably trying to get wider accreditation all the time though, so they are probably adding countries when they come to an agreement. It's been a couple of years since I last looked, so it may even have been added by now, I suppose!

mumblesmum · 04/05/2012 19:51

My Spanish is pretty crap though, kistigger Grin !

kistigger · 04/05/2012 21:01

Well mine is too but there's always wishful thinking about going there Grin!!!!

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QuicheOfDeath · 04/05/2012 22:42

A ha ha ha ha ha ha

A ha ha ha ha ha - this kid is 5 right?

Jesus wept.

madwomanintheattic · 04/05/2012 22:47

nice of you to make a contribution about teacher training courses, QOD. Grin we had rather moved on, but don't let it stop you making snarky comments. friday night? Grin

QuicheOfDeath · 04/05/2012 22:50

Sorry. I read the OP and pissed myself laughing.

I love these threads.

Keep up the good work!

madwomanintheattic · 04/05/2012 23:03

ach, it's been a long time since i worried about yr r, but happy to chat to someone who is worried there are no books for their child. i can see that it would be a worry. always reassuring to know other children have survived unscathed. if your kids are 'different' in any way it's only natural to fret. and school is such a middle of the range sausage machine that if your kid is an outlier at either end (or both simultaneously) then you know they don't really 'fit'. schools can reassure you, or not. and if not, that's what mn is for.

it gets really boring when people's real concerns over their kids are laughed at though.

tis all about perspective. i don't laugh at a woman who is suffering because her baby gets her up 8 times a night, even though mine sleep through. nor do i laugh at the posters on s&b, even though their dilemmas aren't recogniseable in my wardrobe (most of which i can't get into because i'm too fat). (or at least not on the thread anyway). i have no idea why people think that posters on g&t are fair game to be snurked at openly online, in the manner of pointing and laughing.

i should be used to it by now, though. yay mn.

mrsshears · 04/05/2012 23:07

well said madwoman

QuicheOfDeath · 05/05/2012 13:37

Why are they seen as fair game?

Because this level of hot housing is just insane. Age 5! Barmy.

And I speak as someone who has a degree and is passionate about education.

onesandwichshort · 05/05/2012 18:32

It's not hot housing if the school is not actually educating your child. DD entered reception reading chapter books. But we didn't hot house her, we didn't even teach her to read, she just worked it out. So am I just expected to sit there and let her be reading books that are way below her level for three years while all the other children catch up, and sit through phonics lessons which she knows? Why is that OK? Why should most of the rest of the class get an education while all she learns is to sit there and be bored?

It's not actually fun any of this. I'm proud of DD, but I also wish that in some ways she was more average. Life would certainly be a lot easier that way. And it's unbelievably useful being able to come onto boards like this, because I can't say a single thing to other parents at school, just on the off chance that they react in the rather mean-minded and spiteful way that you did.

madwomanintheattic · 06/05/2012 01:24

Hot housing?

Grin

Mine taught themselves, feck all to do with hot housing. I didn't even know dd2 could read as she was non verbal.

But I kind of hope that schools will teach all kids at least something in the first three years. I mean, they do, in terms of sitting still and keeping quiet, and letting other children answer questions. Sadly some schools don't differentiate for ability if kids are outside of the norm. And this is really difficult to explain to children who have been consistently socialised to believe that school is for learning. In fact, most schools don't even have a clue what half of the class is capable of, because it doesn't matter. They are taught to the curriculum. There is no way a y1 teacher could actually know what level maths a child is capable of doing, because it isn't tested. It's not relevant. So the kids get spoon fed stuff they have been able to do competently for three years. And it doesn't even occur to teachers that this might be the case.

And parents have to sit at parents' evening and listen to the 'meeting all targets' stuff again. The targets that they met 3 years before. In nursery. And then they think they are going crazy because is this really it? What is school for? Oh, socialisation. But surely they must have some responsibility to educate? Apparently not.

The infant years can be altogether baffling if you have a bright kid. Because before they start, you assume they are completely normal. You think all kids can multiply and work out change, and read you a story.

But no need to fret, because pretty soon you get some whacko appear who informs you that you have been hot housing your child, and laughs in your face, or makes comments like 'Jesus wept' and rolls their eyes at you. So you learn pretty quickly that your kid is an aberration. And apparently, so are you. If you innocently answer the 'what reading level is x on?' question in the playground, instead of prevaricating or changing the subject, then no one will ever speak to you again, and will whisper about boasting behind their hands and smirk when you walk past. You learn to lie pretty quickly. Or to focus instead on your child's utter failures, pointing them out for the world to acknowledge. 'never mind her reading level! She's crap at, erm, sleeping! Toilet training! She wets the bed!'

Then you find somewhere like mn and a forum called g&t, where in theory you are okay to ask the questions that are forbidden in the playground, like, should school actually have books that dd hasn't read?' and then you find out that even here, you get folk popping in of a Friday night to point and laugh. And make the ridiculous hot housing suggestions.

You know, qod, some kids are clever. Get over it.

I still wish schools would meet the needs of all students. You obviously don't. Give the kid a book with four words on the page, that'll do. No matter if she reads crappy formulaic rainbow fairies in ten minutes and is desperately searching for something that she can get her teeth into and actually learn something. Why should she? She can make do. How very dare she think she deserves an education. She can already read, what more does she want? I bet it's the mother. The mother is always to blame. Bloody child too big for her boots....

Anyway, thanks for proving the point. Grin you are a stereotype all of your own. just sad that you are the very boring majority who are content with substandard education.

kunoichi · 06/05/2012 14:36

I wish there was a thumbs-up/+1 button on this forum - nicely said onesandwichshort and madwomanintheattic =) Normally I'd suggest we don't feed the trolls, but you both made very good points!

Having children on both ends of the educational spectrum, I can honestly say there is an obligation for meeting a child's educational needs, whatever they may be. Children who are struggling are more than entitled to extra support, though sadly it doesn't often work at the gifted end of the scale, particularly (it seems) in primary school.

My DD is currently in Y2 and her present teacher is incredibly helpful, particularly as I support her so well at home with activities and extra work to keep her occupied. A couple of previous teachers weren't so enthusiastic about offering advanced work (or even recognising that DD might benefit from it) which led to some frustrations and acting out when she was younger. Things are much better now, though as DDs school does struggle with class sizes and also financially, I do feel the need to support her as much as possible at home. But I don't consider it hot-housing, more like keeping us both sane!