How long do you let them 'cruise'?

[kistigger]

I feel that DD is cruising at school. Apart from the all important 'socialisation' skills DD has not learned anything in school or nursery since she started (3 years now). (I'm not saying those skills aren't important just that I was expecting an 'all-round' kind of education!!) The fact that she is still ahead shows how far ahead she was in the first place and how much we have done at home. If she was not keeping up with the class we would get called in to discuss the fact she was cruising and not making any progress. Surely this should be the case for children at the top too, to continue to make progress and achieve their potential?! Or am I asking too much?

Arre you saying school does not differentiate work at all? and declines to do so even after you've raised it with them?

She will have learnt things in school I'm sure? Maybe you've pushed literacy and numeracy but what about the PSHE/science/starting a foreign lnaguage or do you fit all that into evening and weekends too?

We've chosen not to race the curriculum but try to branch out eg wildlife (have failed at persuading to take up music).

The differentiation is not enough, they are aware of it but don't have enough spare staff time to do anything about it! They don't see her cruising as an issue because she is still at the top of the class.

iseenodust I'm sure you're right re PSHE and I expect she has learned some physical stuff (though probably things she would have learned anyway!). They don't do a foreign language at all until she hits Y3 (currently Y1). The science is very basic/minimal and she knew most of that before too.

I do the Maths because that is what interests her, rather than to race ahead with the curriculum. We considered a musical instrument but can't afford lessons at the moment, possibly need to consider teaching her some ourselves! She knows loads of plant/creature names and how to differentiate between them etc and is fascinated with lemurs (announcing a couple of weeks ago that she wants to go to Madagascar to see them). I am trying Spanish with her (cos I know a bit and cos her school will do French, so it's something different) but at this stage we haven't done much, I'm not taking it further until she takes more interest! We do always try to follow her interests at home!

Our doing stuff at home is an intellectual stimulation thing, the less she gets the significantly more challenging her behaviour becomes. We're not those pushy parents who make their DC do loads at home so that they are super clever/at the top of the class, in order to be able to boast to the other parents!! She just wants and needs to learn more all the time, a human sponge!!!

Suppose you stretched her to her natural ability, could she do her GCSEs at 11 or 12? Would you want her to?

Interesting because OFSTED will look at provision for the more able. I think we are benefitting with DS because his school's inspection a couple of years ago raised as an area for improvement better maths differentiation for the more able (school rated outstanding for what it's worth).

Sorry not to offer more constructive help.

ragged I don't know how early she could do GCSEs or if I would want her to, I guess when they're this little it's not something you consider tbh. But how do you convince a 6yo that they need to slow down in maths???

iseenodust Our school got only good for their 2010 OFSTED. It notes that 'some minor weaknesses remain in the achievement of more-able pupils' 'on some occasions, the teaching does not fully stretch the more-able pupils', detailed records... do not generate really stretching targets for the most able pupils'. Their targets are in fact to raise targets and stretch more able learners further, guess they're still not achieving it!!!

Have you taught your DD chess?
If she enjoys su doku, moved on to ken ken ? ie playing with numbers rather than learning facts..

One, KS1 is largely consolidation for bright kids. I mean, there is new stuff, but nothing that challenged them, just that interests them.

KS2 allows the brightest to stretch themselves in terms of written projects and work. Maths is still pretty non challenging if they start y3 with a good grip of all of the multiplication tables etc, but tbh there is usually more scope for subtle differentiation in juniors.

That said, I would just keep on doing the stuff at home. She's old enough now to understand that she can differentiate for herself, both in school and out, and will be consolidating research skills (like the lemur thing) that will allow her to do that. Differentiation is less problematic as they move on from here, because they do it themselves. A basic title or project can be as involved as they want it to be.

I can honestly say that I don't think any of mine learned much in ks1, but from that point, there have been marked differences. The girls have a strong work ethic and are happy to immerse themselves in any work given, and take it to the max. Ds1 gets an 'idea' from his school work, and takes it off in his own direction (and moans about having to do the boring school work). All are extending themselves in different ways.

I'm all for sideways extension. Ime this means they are usually still working a few years ahead in their rudimentary knowledge of Maths, but they have occasionally gaps which would not be filled by grade skipping (in ds1's case it is stem and leaf plots lol) so unless you have a school which is prepared to test their knowledge of the full math curriculum for the next year, there isn't much point in pressing for a move up for math. (ds1's school have, lol. And have decided not to move him even though he scored between 80 and 100% on the next year groups end of year tests).

Honestly, infants is for playing and social skills. Juniors is when they start taking responsibility for extending their own work through school projects.

She plays chess a little with her brother, though she finds the pace a little slow and her brother tells her moves to make which will lose her pieces but she does them anyway to appease him (highly sensitive boy who hates to lose)!!!

She does like sudoku, not tried her on kenken, sounds like a good idea! She likes playing mathematical games too - we have and play Magic Cauldron (orchard toys), Rummikub, RushHour, Make 7 (like 4 in a row but involving adding), Tri-ominoes, amongst others and she'll even play Monopoly!!!

Thanks madwomanintheattic, it's good to feel reassured that others have had to go through the same traumas with KS1!!! I guess for me the real debate is if we can all cope with the remaining 4 terms left before DD starts Juniors/KS2! I did debate taking her out until then but DH is very anti the idea!

Kistigger
Hi, you may have seen my post's about my dd on this subject,she is also in y1 and has been assessed as being on the 99.9th percentile for IQ,we are more or less going through the same thing as yourself,my dd recieves no differentiation at all,even though her Ed psych report recommended a years advancement.
The way we deal with the situation is lots of extension at home, either what dd is interested in at that time or anything she enjoys and i think she would benfit from expanding on, we also self differentiate the homework which the teachers are ok about.
We thought long and hard about moving dd (and to some extent are still thinking about this) but for the moment have decided we will just pick up the slack at home as she is happy, has lots of friends and is still only 5, yes it's hard to accept that these schools don't provide for our children but there are also many other things to consider.
I hope this helps,good luck

Mine are obsessed with monopoly. they spent a year obsessed with chess, but only occasionally get it out now. Monopoly has been here to stay for years. The most recent thing is scrabble. They used to have the junior version which was monumentally crap, but since we binned it and got the proper one, they all want to play it all the time. Ds1 makes up words though, which is v wearing.

Y1 is tricksy. (I thought she was y2 tbh which is why I was concentrating on the upcoming change to y3). Maybe have a gentle poke around and see if they are putting anything in for g&t next year? Our school had a percussion club for the more able, which was by invite only, in y2. This was in response to 3 yr plan targeting after ofsted report. (outstanding school)

The 3 year plan/ excellence plan might be on the website?

Have you thought about becoming a school governor? it was very interesting at infant level to see how priorities were decided and to get a background feel. Is it a primary?

madwoman It's only an infant, which makes life altogether challenging! I believe she is on the top set of books the school has so have no idea what they are going to do with her next (well now cos the books are too easy, but I think they have a dilemma on their hands cos although they claim they have 'plenty more' even one of the TAs(a friend) is uncertain!!!)!!!!

I thought the junior was monumentally crap too... not thought of binning it and getting the real one out instead!!!

The G&T prog as far as I can tell from DD is actually kids from all 8 classes across Y1&2! So I guess they will do much the same as they did this year! They take them out for a few mins once a week (if teacher is in) for literacy and seperately for numeracy and do supposed extension activities but she often tells me they are too easy or a bit boring!!! The G&T specialist in the school is frankly useless, she barely understand the traits of a G&T child let alone how she can help them and to make matters worse she is unapproachable and DD's teacher (she has job share teachers)!!

Perhaps being a governor is the way forward. I considered it last year but decided it would make no difference and wasn't sure if I could commit to it since DH is often out evenings! I'll certainly need to look into it!

Ours was an infant only. Tbh I think it's better, as there is more of a step change going to a junior school.

Dd1 just accessed the y2 free readers shelf from yr r tbh, and there seemed to be loads of books, I think she probably took stuff from home, as well. I can't get too excited about reading extension for kids who are competent readers - they can do their own extension stuff just reading whatever they want to, although it costs a blooming fortune unless you are disciplined enough to have a decent library habit.

As they do have an extension group, I think you will have to be content to ameliorate your expectations. I don't expect anything else will happen. Next year they will just put her in the level 3 group for says and that will be that.

Dh was army when I was a governor, and I frequently ended up getting sitters for meetings. These expenses can be reimbursed in most schools. I didn't bother, but I do know people who claimed them back. It's definitely worth it. Fascinating. Our HT resigned (more challenging job offer from elsewhere as a troubleshooter in failing schools) and I ended up on the selection panel for the replacement.

DD is on the pink (theoretical level 11) box but unknown words in those books are virtually non-existent and the content is just dire! I have tried looking for other boxes and can find no signs of them. They have kept her on level 10/11 for the last two terms and I think it's cos they know there is nothing more not because she actually needs it!!! Guided group reading is a complete waste of space, her group are reading level 8 or something pathetic and school claim 'she is still learning from it', my arse frankly!!!! I think what I hate most about the reading schemes is our schools obsession with following it so rigorously, not letting them skip, making them read extension pack after extension pack when they grasped the level after 2 books, so 28 books later they can finally move on... just what is that????!!!!

Have decided that I'm going to speak to the non-G&T teacher tomorrow after school and see what is happening with reading. I think I might be truly controversial and ask if she can just read her own books from now on!!! We're big on library usage (part the panel that set it up a couple of years ago) so we get loads out and we buy charity shop 25p books too!!!

Your dd is reading the same level as my dd.
I know you shouldn't have to but can you not just read the school books once at home and then let your dd read her own books?
This is what we do,dd read's the school book and then maybe an Enid bylton or a roald dahl and we write those in the reading diary too,or we do a book review,i really can sympathise and see your point fully with the school issue but it can be a very rocky and emotionally draining road and ime self differentiation needs to play a big part.

What about all the creative stuff that goes on through the curriculum? Elves, fairies, dragons, dinosaurs... ?
I don't get this 'easy' label. So much of my own Y2 curriculum is based on fantasy, in order to hone basic skills across the curriculum. For instance, in our 'Lost and Found' project, the penguin and the boy visited Madagascar, Japan (geography) and our own islands (art, co-ordinates, maths). Children compared polar bears and penguins (science); we had a visitor who'd explored the Arctic.
'Easy' is the wrong adjective for all this, and I can't understand how a 6 year old can know everything there is to know about a topic.

Right, but they must have free reading shelves as well as the scheme, even of they are in the y2 corridor/classroom

Mumbles, yy, but this is y1. Which, to be fair, we found pretty desperate as well...

The books issue was getting to a point where she was throwing wobblers about reading the school one, so I asked if it was possible for her to 'choose' a book from a selection to at least stop her getting lots of football books and things she has no interest in. One teacher agreed... the problem is that invariably the TA changes dds book without consulting teacher or DD. I've now got to the point where I am going to give up getting her to read the school one cos she is so upset about it and it's causing her to lose interest in reading altogether, which shouldn't be happening!

I haven't been able to persuade DD onto Roald Dahl yet. She still looks at chapter books with b/w pictures and decides they are too hard, even when they are in fact easier than the other books she reads... we are getting there slowly trying to raise her confidence about her own ability but it is hard in the face of certain staff members who actively discourage or look down their nose at DD! TOne day when we went to talk to the G&T specialist, she basically gave me and DD a put down when I pleaded for help because DD had been doing DSs homework again (Y4). She claimed I had put her on the spot and then never offered anything, she didn't even go away and come back later, she basically made out like I was lying and that DD couldn't possibly have been able to do that level of work. I printed off the answer DD submitted to nrich last month (published this month) to show teacher, she wasn't totally rude but she wasn't exactly saying well done to DD either! Hopefully the other teacher will give DD a more positive response tomorrow at school!

DD although she has the ability to self-differentiate she lacks the confidence to do it in the classroom in the face of her less than helpful teacher and peers! Hopefully as she gets older she won't feel so pressured by what they think!!

When I was 7 we moved house and my parents put me in a local school. I spent a year colouring in and playing which I quite enjoyed. At parents evening they were told I was too far ahead so they hadn't really bothered! Moved schools the next week but missed out on important year of maths which still baffles me. Was considered to be a bright kid back in the 80's, though more inclined to be lazy now!

madwoman all books are stored in the same place now for all three years, a sort of mini library. The only other books on any other shelves are the 'guided reading packs'. I can't see anything else! They don't appear to have free readers, they have a scheme called 'home readers' which are every level all jumbled together that they can have in addition to their reading book and in all honesty even in there there are very few higher level books! I'm not bothered, I am resolved to being a royal pain in their butt and insist she still isn't getting to choose and therefore I will let her choose her own books from home/library and just not read the books they send home! She would be higher but they insist she reads 5 times more at each level than she needs, plus the potential running out of books issue and having no one for her to work with for guided reading!!!

mumblesmum missed your post earlier... our school does not have this heavy emphasis on topic work! If only they did, she might enjoy it more. They seem to spend 3 hours each day doing literacy, numeracy and phonics... doesn't leave much time for anything else!

mumblesmum you're right, easy may not be the right word... but it is the one DD uses. She says maths is too easy (which is true) and more often than not the rest is just dull and uninteresting.

If she is getting upset by the school books then i would suggest not reading them (at home) and reading books of your dd's own choice,as you say you don't want to turn her off or for her to loose confidence.
We have also had problems with teachers not believing our dd's ability (even with the report) and were even told on one occasion that the difference in dd's performance/ability at home compared to school was down to dd being manipulative and playing off home against school!! she is 5 fgs!!

Mumbles is y2. Quite a difference to the often very basic y1 stuff.