School Admissions- Massive worry!

[AbbyR1973]

Hello,

School admissions results were out on Friday..... disaster!
I didn't get any of my 3 preferences for my little boy or even the catchment school (which is not a great school.) He has been allocated a place in a school 3 miles away in our town. The school is awful- I know it well. There is a high intake of children who don't speak English and withlots of behavioural probelsm. There are 8 exclusions per year out of a school with a total population of 178 (and this is apparently an improvement from the previous 20 and this is a primary school where exclusions seem to be a rare phenomenon.) Plus they teach the reception and nursery children in a single EYFS unit which probably suits the catchment needs due to pupils coming in from a low starting base.
My little boy has been allocated a place there. He isn't extrordinary in the way of being eligible for Mensa but he is very very bright and nursery have been struggling to find him ability appropriate activities for the last year. He needs more than another year in with 3 year olds. I know this would not be the right school for my boy.
We are 12th on the list for first preference and 8th for the other 2 schools. I have been phoning round local small village schools and all are massively oversubscribed. There seems to be a real lack of availability of places for the local community this year.
We will appeal but the chances of success are slim as I understand it. I am a single parent, work full time and can't afford private school.
What on earth am I going to do??? I am very very worried about the impact this will have on my beautful bright little boy.

Hi, There have been many similar posts to this in other topics such as Education and Secondary Education so I would post there as well as you could get lots of good advice on exactly the best way of appealing.

Abby
I just wanted to post and say i have terrible school issues with my dd who is highly gifted and she is in an 'outstanding' state school that is failing her,i have posted many times about my dd and her schooling,i have had lots of replies stating that the best schools can often be those which are classed as satisfactory or good as these school's are more inclined to view children as individuals.#
I suppose what i'm trying to say is when you do get a school you are happy with try not to rely too much on ofsted reports as in my experience outstanding ones are very good at not being outstanding for gifted children.

My son's school has 40% pupils with english not as a first language and satisfactory ofsted, but overall it is very mixed and he is excelling there. Despite this seemingly bleak profile it has very good 11+ results for the area... so you can't always tell a book by the cover.

Does not having English as a first language mean you can't be clever?

I meant this in reference to the OP making the point about language...my use of the word 'bleak' was meant tongue in cheek but obviously didn't come over that way so sorry. I certainly don't make that link and know from looking at my sons class alone that abilities are spread across the mixed social and ethnic spectrum at the school.

Not having English as a first language does not mean you can't be clever of course but if English is not used regularly at home and you come to school with no ability in English that will mean naturally that English skills are starting from a low base (although they will naturally accelerate and catch up given time.) This is in addition to the 20% of pupils in the school with an actual SEN. Having a large proportion of children working from a low base will inevitably use up a lot of teacher's time and energy, and the focus from state schooling seems to be far more around attaining the average rather than worrying very much about getting the best out of more able pupils. There could be a tendency to leave more able pupils to their own devices in the knowledge that they will achieve the minimum without too much help. This could be particularly a problem in a school desperate to improve its results at KS1 and KS2 which are frankly shocking (40% only Level 3 at KS2 and NO Level 5's at all in English.) In the last 3 years of KS2 results on the DFE website, where they divide up KS2 results by "attainment" there are no children in the High Attainer column for the school. All are low or middle attainers. All other schools in the area, even the less good ones had some high attainers!
I am worried about the implications for my son of going to a school where is one of very very few able children, particularly where the final outcomes are so poor. I will be going to visit the school and get a feel for it but am also keeping my options open re whether to home educate until a place comes up in one of our waiting list schools. NB Home ed would definitely not be my choice but it could be the lesser of 2 evils.

So from your post your assuming children with English as a second language and children with sen always start on a low base
My dd1 went to one of the best schools in area, with outstanding ofstead. They were terrible with her and she is on G&T.

Do have a look at private schools as many offer burseries to those in need if they think your child is of benefit to their school.

How does OP know how many exclusions the school had last year? Is there a league table somewhere online for primary school exclusions?

OPs being given a bit of an unnecessarily hard time here. I don't think she is saying that children with EAL and SEN are thick or 'behind' - she's concerned that her child won't be challenged at school. To be fair, the results OP give ARE low - well below what most schools with a challenging intake achieve.

Tbh, my main concern in primary would be a 3 mile travel, the inconvenience and social disadvantage of that. I would recommend getting your son's name on every waiting list you can - there may be a place closer to home that comes up.

A LOT of schools have nursery & reception in one foundation unit BUT they will be doing different things within it.

Yes, don't worry about the nursery and reception in together- a lot of schools do that these days. The school DD1 has been allocated has one nursery class and 2 reception classes (so 90 kids!) all in the same big open plan space. But there are also separate areas for them to do different activities in their class groups.

Have you been to see the school?

An SEN does not mean someone is not bright.

Ds1 is on the SEN register but is also gifted.

I think that just looking at a 20% statistic (which is not that high IMO) and thinking that it follows that 20% of pupils will be holding back the other pupils is too simplistic. It might be st the school has good support and funding in place to address the SENs at the same time as providing a good education to the NT kids.

Incidentally, our school has lower results than it would hope for. It also has a new head and a massive impetus for improving results and changing outcomes. I heard recently that within 3 years a school can change enormously - and it may be that the school you've been offered is a year or so into that change but that the new initiatives haven't yet impacted on year 6 sats.

The levels you've cited suggest to me that the school is going to be implementing massive change to avoid falling below the floor standards for attainment and having surprise ofsted visits. That's what's certainly happening at my dc's school.

These things r on the ofsted report if they weren't something parents needed to consider y would they be on the report? I too was allocated a school that had a high number of EAL pupils. And no that doesn't make them stupid or incapable and no it's not the child's fault but it is common sense that alot uf extra support has to be given to catch them up on their English in order to give them a fair chance of a good education and if a school is badly run ( my local school has a high staff turnover ) then no all the children Won't get the teaching and support they need. It's not nice we have to consider these things and in an ideal works it shouldn't matter bit there r schools out there that can't efficiently cater for all pupils :(

What's the school's OFSTED? Is it bad enough to trigger immediate action?
I do sympathise OP because it seems you really have looked into this in a lot of detail and not just made a snap decision - taking everything into account it does seem like a school with problems.

The only obvious solution is to stay in the waiting lists and bide your time unless you can move. Places may come up at a later date and a year in a big reception where your DS isn't challenged academically will still teach him lots of social stuff - assuming you're doing a lot of enrichment outside the classroom he won't suffer.

In your shoes, I would take whatever place you can get but stay on all suitable waiting lists. Whenever a place comes up you can visit the school offereing and decide if it is worth moving to. Meanwhile also keep your ear to the ground with local parents-hard if you work FT! do try though.

I agree OFSTED reports are of VERY LIMITED VALUE to you as an individual especially if your child is not average, in some way. The school that everyone warned me off because it has lots of SN pupils and hence low SAT scores, turned out to be a best-kept secret in the area-smaller classes as not oversubscribed, and loads of extra highly trained and motivated support staff so a brilliant ratio. They know how to deal with non-average kids andlet them shine whatever their strengths or weaknesses.

My 2 GT DDs have moved primary schools (twice for DD2) in a hugely oversubscribed area, and I would have no hesitation about doing it again. Families move around and places come up-be patient and open minded.Schools don't like it as it makes extra work-that's not your problem. In fact dd2 who has had friendship problems has benefitted from having friends from different schools.

I have also tried HE. I don't recommend it if you are a single parent and need to work, but you may have other circumstance that make it possible for you.

Dear All,

Thanks for your kind and supportive posts and advice. I have been quite busy doing some further research.

In our area it seems the LEA failed to foresee a massive increase in applications and got a big surprise. Hence they have parachuted an extra reception class into this school so it will suddenly go from having 20 children in a reception intake to 60 children in a reception intake. Unfortunately this only adds to my worry about this school. I believe actually this is doing a disservice to both sets of children. The local catchment has a high level of need which was probably served by the school having smaller classes. I suspect behavioural issues at the school will worsen as they no longer have that advantage and are unable to fully cater to either need.

By the way I do understand that SEN doesn't mean you can't be gifted BUT this school has NOBODY in the high attainers column SEN or otherwise. Would you send your gifted child to a school like that? DS1 is currently Level 9 on his EFFS profile at nursery across the board. He is currently probably at year 1 level in terms of reading.

I understand what you mean hon. It's so hard to explain what you mean without coming across as discriminating in some way. But the truth is you wouldn't want to send anyone to a school that's performing so badly. The fact that there's so many SN kids and no one is reaching above average levels pretty much confirms that all provisions in the school are poor as there is no reason in the world why they should be achieving such low levels when given correct support they can and do achieve as high as others. Shows that they have basically taken the funding and run and I wouldnt want to send my child to a school unable to cope with the wide range of levels children have. Its just not right and it's just failing everybody :( I think you r right to be worried about the increased numbers. They clearly can't cope with what they have and adding extra numbers on top wouldn't sit right with me either. I wish you luck op you do what you feel is right for your dc. :)

It's impossible to tell what a school will and won't be like from their SATs/GCSEs results (esp secondary, so many not reporting them in full/at all, and with NVQs etc not counting towards percentage of pupils attaining 5+ GCSEs!!!).

We moved for school (and a garden). We thought the schools (currently DD in infant only, DS in junior only) would be good here. It turns out that their OFSTED is only 'good' for a reason. They barely have any idea of what a gifted child is let alone how to do anything with them or how they can stretch them to achieve their potential. The school has no spare funds cos they are stretched to capacity (120 kids per year entry) and literally within a week of one child leaving another will take their place! Their resources are pants. Their teachers are unimaginative and uncreative. The kids are being served death by boredom!!! Our school concentrates on working towards government targets ie getting everyone to attain the minimums. Top attainers get forgotten and left to their own devices cos they have already met the minimum, with most focus put on dragging bottom ones up!!!

DS's nursery unit within an infant school near our old house was fantastic. Despite having something like 87 languages spoken by the children attending and having over 80% of kids with English as a second, third or fourth language they all worked hard. No idea what their OFSTED was or their results but their community atmosphere was amazing. Being a considerably smaller school (only 30 intake), everyone knew everyone. Their ratio of staff to kids was high cos of the language thing. Sometimes I wish we never moved!

A friend (kids in same classes as mine) is Russian, her two have Russian as their first language. Her DS couldn't speak when started YR and barely said anything in rest of infants tbh. They have since discovered it is a speach problem rather than the fact he had ESL. Her DD is extremely clever and is up near the top of the class, plus she speaks/writes/reads English and Russian. Foreign learners in my experience aree very varied!! I know others whose parents have no desire to learn English therefore the only input their kids get is at school!!!!

OP I would suggest going to the school (with your DS) at school coming out time and seeing what the kids faces look like and see if you can chat to a parent or two about what they think of the school. Sounds a bit odd I know but you might get a slightly more honest opinion!

It seems a little off that you have not got any of your 3 choices or your catchment school! We were recommended by our council to make sure one of our choices was our catchment school, probably for exactly that reason! And 3 miles is a trek when you are working FT, are they offering transport???