Help me get this across properly please

[mrsshears]

I have a meeting this week with my dd's y1 teacher to discuss the difference huge crater between dd's maths performance/ability at school compared to home and i want to get my point across without appearing pushy or confrontational.
Dd is in what i suspect is a fairly low ability set at school and working on things like number bonds to 20 and segmenting 2 digit numbers,according to dd they have to get whatever they are set right 5 times before they are allowed to move on to the next level,this is not an ideal system for dd as when presented with something that is too easy she will loose concentration/motivation and get things wrong so she is very frustrated at the minute and of course with dd behaving this way the teachers are assuming its because she isnt capeable of the work set.
However because dd isnt getting any form of challenge when she is faced with it on rare occasions she can't cope with it and apply herself so as you can imagine the whole thing is a bit of a nightmare tbh.
I know dd is capeable of maths at a higher level as she loves doing it at home and can mentally add 2 and 3 digit numbers,knows her 2,5,10 and 11 times tables and the division facts for her 2's,can tell the time,is currently doing fractions and percentages, frequently relates maths to everyday situations and uses mathematical language.
The problem i have is how can i explain all this to dd's teacher,without coming across as pushy,i can see the situation getting worse as time goes on and i'm keen for dd to learn how to use her knowledge and aply herself properly? school think dd has no real ability in numeracy,admitedly she is much stronger in other areas but imo is capeable of so much more than they give her credit for.

Mrs Shears, I can't really understand how dd could possibly get the 'simple' things wrong if she is so advanced. The answers (e.g. of number bonds to 20) should be second nature to her. Concentration really doesn't come into it.

Sometimes children are able to pick up the more difficult concepts even though they are still insecure with the easier number work. Number bonds to 20 are vital, and answers need to be automatic responses.

I think you have lots of things going on and you need to separate them out if you want to get your point across. For a start forget about the situation getting worse and deal with what is in front of you now.

For some reason your DD isn't showing her maths ability in school. It could just be that in a classroom she is expected to get on with things without the one to one feedback that she gets at home. She is still very young and the idea of just getting on with the easy stuff so that more interesting work will follow should be something that comes with age. DD2 didn't show her maths ability at school properly until year 4 and then it was obvious that she was advanced. She is now doing Maths at university so a slower start hasn't done her any harm.

I think in this situation I would use the meeting as an opportunity to find out exactly what is expected in school, how they are moved through the work and get a handle on what the teacher thinks about your DD's ability. Then at least you have a starting point. Maybe ask the teacher how she thinks you should help your DD at home then at least you are working together.

Sorry, but lots of children do stuff at home that is at a higher level. I would take the other posters advice.

I think the first thing is not to worry too much as your dd is still so young - the school ought to be aware that children at this age can be unpredictable when it comes to showing what they can really do, because issues of concentration, boredom, not feeling comfortable yet with the way things are done in the classroom, wanting to be doing something else, etc, can't help but creep in. So they won't (unless they are mad) be writing your dd off as some kind of dunce even if she isn't doing what she's asked very well.

I don't think you would come across as too pushy if you told the teachers that you felt a bit sad that your dd, who loves maths at home and likes to play games adding things up in her head, isn't showing this ability and enthusiasm to the teachers at school and doesn't seem to be very keen on doing maths in the school environment. Maybe you could ask them why they think this might be - does she seem easily distracted at school, or unusually quiet? I would also to a certain extent agree with mumblesmum, that number bonds to 20, if learnt off by heart, shouldn't be something a child makes mistakes with. Ds2 was a bit like this last year and at the beginning of year 1 with respect to mental arithmetic - he enjoyed doing it at home for fun, but at school would make silly mistakes and appear to do things a bit slowly. Largely this was because he refused to use number lines like the others (he felt that was boring and, in any event, cheating) and, whilst he could normally work sums out in his head quite quickly and accurately at home, hadn't memorised any number bonds (well, I find them boring, so I wasn't going to discuss them with him at home unless and until he was asked to learn them at school and brought them home as homework - not when there are more interesting things to talk about!), so with the distractions of the classroom and not being particularly interested in doing the sums in front of him, wasn't always getting his work finished and was occasionally making rather silly mistakes. Since he had shown his mathematical abilities in many other ways, though (he picks concepts up incredibly quickly, just isn't always interested then in the learning by rote bits, which is quite interesting, since my ds1 has an almost photographic memory and sometimes goes to the other extreme of memorising things before trying to work out the concept behind them....), the teachers could see what was happening and didn't jump to the conclusion that he didn't understand what he was doing. Fortunately, he does seem to have learnt all his number bonds, now (thank you, school...), so can get the correct answers down quickly and accurately all the time, which means that he no longer gets any boring sheets of simple sums, but more interesting word problems and puzzles which require a bit more lateral thinking and proof of the genuine understanding of the underlying concept, which is what interests him, rather than churning out rote-learnt answers.

Thanks everyone,very helpful

mumblesmum it baffles me too, she has always done this type of thing,i do wonder as others have said if lack of interest plays a part.
webiz That is certainly the angle i'm going to go in at,that i want us to all work together as dd's teacher can take things as a insult to her teaching ability.
rabbit i'm hoping that this may get better as they introduce more 'interesting' work my only worry is that dd needs to show them she can do the easy stuff in order to be given that.

I was going to take in some work dd had done at home but have changed my mind on this as knowing dd's teacher i don't think that would go down so well,i'm going to focus strongly on what might be causing the discrepency and how we can work together to get to the bottom of it.
I will update after the meeting to let you know how i get on,thanks again.

Mrsshears,while you are keeping your DD amused to do the hard questions, try to target the following as well: Accuracy and precision,Clear layout,Clear hand writing, Explain what you do .
I think it is sensible you changed your mind .:)

I'm really not looking forward to this
I think i can predict the outcome before it happens,i think i will be made out to be out to have an unrealistic idea of dd's ability and a uber pushy mum,dd has demonstrated in seconds this morning one of the things that she isnt allowed to do as in her words 'they don't know i can do it yet and havent taught it to me yet'

Try and clarify for yourself the following before your meeting:

• what is the purpose of the meeting
• what do you want the meeting to achieve

Try and avoid a circular, repetitive conversation of 'we had an assessment which says DD is capable of achieving X, whilst you continue to insist DD is capable of only Y'. This will not get you anywhere.

Whilst you may disagree with the teachers assessment of your DDs achievement in school and feel hostile towards her, there is clearly a reason for the huge gap between home and school performance. Your concern clearly is that this gap is bigger than the normal difference which most children would display (home being more comfortable, involved parents giving 1-1 attention, less distractions etc.) and you want/need to try to establish the cause of the discrepancy.

This issue, which seems to be at the heart of your concerns, has little if anything to do with the ed. psych assessment you have had done and your DDs potential to excel in school. It has nothing to do with whether or not you like the teacher, although clearly you do not.

I feel you need to approach the meeting with a more positive attitude (which I know may well be very hard with the past history). You need to direct and use the meeting as an opportunity to identify what your DD is struggling with at school. My DD (in Reception) can do Maths at home at a much higher level than in school - she would fly through the year 2 and 3 curriculum if I let her. However she has not secured some of the basic, automatic processes she needs to (like number bonds) and I do not get unduly wound up when the teacher says she can do X and I know at home she can do much more because I do not feel it matters too much at this age. What matters is she secures the basic skills. If your daughter does not show security in basics at school then the teacher is, I feel, correct to focus on these. I appreciate you may not agree with that but it would seem pointless to me to extend her without having the fundamentals in place.

What would be more of an issue is why - when she is a very able little girl - she is struggling to secure this knowledge and demonstrate it consistently. This should be at the heart of your discussion with the school. The fact that she is gifted means she will learn/absorb new information quickly and with ease. It means she can understand complex issues, possibly well before her peers. It does not necessarily mean she has a good memory however and it may be that for some reason she is not able to retain some of the information she has previously learned. For this reason it may be wise educationally to slow down her rate of progress in maths and focus on fun ways of doing the necessary repetition to secure the knowledge she is struggling with. As I said my DD is assessed as being in the top such-and-such percent in Maths. She also has a problem with visual memory which means there are some aspects of Maths and reading she may actually struggle with despite her giftedness. Her giftedness may mean she excels in maths or it may mean she has the ability to compensate for the VM discrepancy and perform at an average/slightly above average level. Or it may mean that as she progresses through school she performs well below her potential. Only time will tell although I am hopeful that the work she does with the ed. psych will help her compensate for the VM deficit successfully. Being assessed as gifted does not necessarily mean outstanding performance is a natural progression. When you had the assessment done on your DD did you simply have tests done which measured her IQ or did they do a full educational assessment which could pick up potential learning difficulties?

If your DD is having a crisis of confidence and feels the teacher has no faith in her I would broach this with the teacher in a tactful way by talking about the fact you feel your daughter is losing her confidence in maths and you worry the anxiety is making her more error prone. Children like their teachers and want their teachers to like them and be pleased with them. I know you have posted before that you feel your DD has little desire to please the teacher but it is very possible that she is picking up on your own negative attitude towards the teacher and feels conflicted: in pleasing/liking the teacher she may feel she will displease you. If she is aware that you feel she should be doing more 'difficult' maths at school then she may be worried about disappointing you, more stressed and therefore more error prone.

Just wanted to say good luck Mrsshears! I hope the meeting goes well today, thinking of you! :)

Well it was a bit meh really,it could have been alot worse but also could have been alot better.
On a good note the teacher was very positive about dd which i was very pleased about as in our last meeting both her and the head made lots of very negative comments about dd,she said she was doing really well (in her oppinion),when i asked about the discrepancy in dd's maths i was told it was basically down to the different types of maths and it being used in a different way,she said that there is no way they could do the type of maths dd is doing at home in school in y1 i.e fractions and percentages.
She did describe her as being above average but its obvious that they don't get just how above average she is and are still viewing her as quirky and quite/relatively bright,i'm really hoping as dd gets older she shows herself more at school,by looking at her books and hearing her teacher it is getting better but still a long way to go,i saw what they had been doing in dd's maths book and to be fair it looks like she may have realised that she just has to get on with it looking at the last few weeks worth of work.
She gave me her levels for reading ,writing and maths and they are all a secure 2c with some aspects of a 2b in some areas.
My feeling is that we will be doing alot of additional learning at home with dd if she stays in her current setting but that then brings us back to the whole to move school or not to move school,as i said earlier i just hope that dd may get better with age but time will tell i suppose...

What happened with the other school? Are you still in negotiations? (sorry, just seen this...)

No, they made a fab offer of 50% but we didnt feel we could accept as we still would have had to pay quite a lot per year and felt it would not be fair on the other dc to have to make sacrifices for a sibling.

Well at least the teacher was positive about your DD mrsshears and things are going in the right direction even if you aren't actually where you want to be yet.

An interesting thread - I have a similar issue with my DS and literacy at school. He's Year 1, free reading, but in the bottom set for phonics. numerous discussions with his teacher about it, but she's adamant he's in the right set. It seems there are three main things holding him back: 1) the discussions about words are at a much lower level than we have at home (eg "give me a word with the X sound", rather "a word that rhymes with X or is a homophone of X"), so he doesn't respond as easily; 2) his handwriting isn't fast enough to keep pace with the work they're doing in higher sets; and 3) he is bored doing "easy" words, gets easily distracted, so doesn't demonstrate how much he xan actually do.

We've decided to stop nagging the teacher, and instead concentrate on helping DS to do his best possible work at school to show what he can actually do. We'll see how this goes...

Urgh... That's a shame.

Speed of writing & doing work is key in Y1 but usually they have got a lot quicker by Y2. Making silly mistakes & checking their work really is a useful skill to develop - try getting your daughter to invert the operation to make sure the answer she has written is correct.