Meeting about DS2

[singinggirl]

I have a meeting about DS2 with his teacher and headteacher on Monday morning. His social/ emotional skills have always been poor compared to his academic performance but they are now causing more issues in the classroom - he is year 4, but socially and emotionally he is more like a Year 2.

I feel that his issues haven't been addressed because he is achieving so well academically. He is achieving level 4's across the board, but I don't think he is working at his ability level. For example DS1 in Year 6 (who I would say is very bright but not gifted) and DS2 read the same books, discuss them and work together on all sorts of projects at home on a level. In the summer when DS1 was practising for the 11+ I used to have to throw DS2 out of the room, since he used to tell his brother the answers (especially on non-verbal). DS1 scored 140 in all three papers (maximum score), but from what I observed at home DS2 could do better in some areas at two years younger.

So I guess I have two problems here; trying to get the school to take his social/ emotional issues seriously and thre fact that he does not seem to be fulfilling his potential. Any advice on how to handle this meeting would be much appreciated!

I should add that at home he does not feel he sticks out with a bright brother (sitting level six SATS papers), whereas at school I think he hides what he is capable of in order to fit in better. This has been more pronounced as he has gone through school and is aware of not fitting in.

The school may be quite happy with where he is academically as he is already performing well so they may not consider his academic performance an issue. His social immaturity may be much more pronounced at school compared to home, due to the distractive factor of so many children being around. At home he will be emotionally much more comfortable and so probably concentrate better. Also if his immature behaviour at school is caused by any kind of stress then, since these factors will likely be absent at home, you probably won't see the same level of problems as his teachers. If his behaviour has become disruptive to his learning then this again will explain why he performs better at home. If it is disruptive to others then it definitely needs input and I would be surprised if the school thought differently.

He is already achieving ahead of expectations at Level 4 in year 4 so the school clearly know he is bright and are doing something towards these needs. My advice on how to approach this it to pretty much tell them what you have said here: that at home he seems to match or even eclipse his older brother and you are becoming concerned that he is not showing what he is capable of at school and would like their thoughts/advice on this.

If your son is gifted do you feel/fear his behaviour may be linked to this in someway? When you say he is socially and emotionally much younger than his chronological age is there a concern niggling in you somewhere that his difficulties may relate to some kind of ASD, or do you think he may be simply a little bit of an intellectual 'oddball' and find it hard to relate to chronological peers as his interests are not in sync with theirs? His ability may or may not be an issue or part of the problem with his immaturity so it can only help you all to have a full picture of what is going on.

Regarding his social immaturity I would say this is possibly the more urgent need for you to address as he is doing well educationally. Being immature isn't in itself a learning difficulty, but it could lead to some behaviour issues and if you feel this is the case then he may well need some support. Where do his greatest difficulties lie: making/maintaining friendships, behaviour in the classroom being inappropriate etc? Is his behaviour a real cause for concern for his teacher? If so what strategies have they tried and what do they suggest next? Has he been seen by SEN or do they plan this next? What situations seem to make things worse and when is it less of a problem? Do you see the same issues at home as they see in school? What resources have they used or do they plan to use to support your son? Some children do simply mature more slowly than others. I generally see a couple every year who stand out - not necessarily in a bad way - as being a lot younger than their peers. I have a lovely year 9 lad at the moment (who is actually starting to catch up nicely in maturity terms) who 6 months ago was still like a little 8 year old in many respects. It may simply be that he is lagging in this area and will catch up over the years.

My advice is to be as honest and open as possible with the school. Go in armed with your list of questions and points you want to raise written down so that you don't forget anything important. Be open to what they suggest. If you disagree tell them of your reservations and ask them to give you a fuller explanation of their thinking. Take notes. Ask for a copy of any minutes being taken. Make sure you end the meeting clear on what the next steps are, who is going to do what and in what timeframe. If, for example, they suggest referring your son for testing ask to whom, what kind of tests and the when they are thinking of doing it. If they feel there are no issues and you disagree ask them to provide their reasons in writing by a set date so you have the information to go to the education authority/governors etc. (whoever it is you would appeal your next step to). If they are content with the status quo and monitoring ask them to commit to a time frame when you will meet again to review. If they are putting strategies in place at school ask if there is anything you can do at home to reflect and support these. Be clear on what you are concerned about and what you want from the meeting and why.

Hope that helps, and good luck.

The school may be quite happy with where he is academically as he is already performing well so they may not consider his academic performance an issue. His social immaturity may be much more pronounced at school compared to home, due to the distractive factor of so many children being around. At home he will be emotionally much more comfortable and so probably concentrate better. Also if his immature behaviour at school is caused by any kind of stress then, since these factors will likely be absent at home, you probably won't see the same level of problems as his teachers. If his behaviour has become disruptive to his learning then this again will explain why he performs better at home. If it is disruptive to others then it definitely needs input and I would be surprised if the school thought differently.

He is already achieving ahead of expectations at Level 4 in year 4 so the school clearly know he is bright and are doing something towards these needs. My advice on how to approach this it to pretty much tell them what you have said here: that at home he seems to match or even eclipse his older brother and you are becoming concerned that he is not showing what he is capable of at school and would like their thoughts/advice on this.

If your son is gifted do you feel/fear his behaviour may be linked to this in someway? When you say he is socially and emotionally much younger than his chronological age is there a concern niggling in you somewhere that his difficulties may relate to some kind of ASD, or do you think he may be simply a little bit of an intellectual 'oddball' and find it hard to relate to chronological peers as his interests are not in sync with theirs? His ability may or may not be an issue or part of the problem with his immaturity so it can only help you all to have a full picture of what is going on.

Regarding his social immaturity I would say this is possibly the more urgent need for you to address as he is doing well educationally. Being immature isn't in itself a learning difficulty, but it could lead to some behaviour issues and if you feel this is the case then he may well need some support. Where do his greatest difficulties lie: making/maintaining friendships, behaviour in the classroom being inappropriate etc? Is his behaviour a real cause for concern for his teacher? If so what strategies have they tried and what do they suggest next? Has he been seen by SEN or do they plan this next? What situations seem to make things worse and when is it less of a problem? Do you see the same issues at home as they see in school? What resources have they used or do they plan to use to support your son? Some children do simply mature more slowly than others. I generally see a couple every year who stand out - not necessarily in a bad way - as being a lot younger than their peers. I have a lovely year 9 lad at the moment (who is actually starting to catch up nicely in maturity terms) who 6 months ago was still like a little 8 year old in many respects. It may simply be that he is lagging in this area and will catch up over the years.

My advice is to be as honest and open as possible with the school. Go in armed with your list of questions and points you want to raise written down so that you don't forget anything important. Be open to what they suggest. If you disagree tell them of your reservations and ask them to give you a fuller explanation of their thinking. Take notes. Ask for a copy of any minutes being taken. Make sure you end the meeting clear on what the next steps are, who is going to do what and in what timeframe. If, for example, they suggest referring your son for testing ask to whom, what kind of tests and the when they are thinking of doing it. If they feel there are no issues and you disagree ask them to provide their reasons in writing by a set date so you have the information to go to the education authority/governors etc. (whoever it is you would appeal your next step to). If they are content with the status quo and monitoring ask them to commit to a time frame when you will meet again to review. If they are putting strategies in place at school ask if there is anything you can do at home to reflect and support these. Be clear on what you are concerned about and what you want from the meeting and why.

Hope that helps, and good luck.

sorry for double post - internet connection issue.

Thank you for that post adoptmama, it was very helpful.

I have just got back from the meeting, the upshot of which was that they are concerned he is showing signs of Aspergers. So I am now going to my GP to request a referral (they have given me details of where to request a referral to) to investigate if this is an issue.

They also agree that he does not show what he is really capable of at school, and they are planning to work with me on strategies to help adjust small behaviours. DS2 knows that some things he does annoy other people, so is happy for us to help him to avoid a specific behaviour. Now just got to wait till DH gets home to discuss it with him, I know he'll be upset but thank goodness he's at home this week. (He works away a lot). I don't feel that upset about the possible Aspergers surprisingly enough; I think it's always been in the back of my mind, so I am just pleased to see someone else recognising the issues.

I don't think it will change much for him at his current school if he gets a 'label', but I am hopeful that it might aid him when he transfers to secondary school for them to be aware of the support he needs. Any thoughts on this anyone?

Because they can be socially awkward, gifted children are at risk of misdiagnosis of lots of things including Asperger Syndrome. Before you go any further read the free fact sheet on the NAGC website about gifted children and Asperger Syndrome, no. P84. www.nagcbritain.org.uk/parents.php?id=92 or give them a call on 01908 646433.

You don't say what the social/emotional issues are that he has, but gifted children often find it difficult to relate to their peer group because they think and play in a different way. Also, they often suffer from emotional hypersensitivity and at a young age cannot deal with their very strong emotions, leading to frequent meltdowns and outbursts. They also need to keep their minds occupied and find it difficult to deal with 'down time' in the classroom. Please talk to NAGC as they can help with all of this.

Thanks pp I have just been investigating the NAGC site, and have printed out some useful stuff. My current thinking is that we may go down the route suggested by the school - to rule in or out, but also have a look at having him assessed - I assume we would be going to an educational psychologist for this? It all seems like a bit of a minefield, but this thread is helping so much, thank you for responding.

As has often been said before, just because a school suspects something, does not mean a diagnosis is certain. As teachers we probably come across ASD children more often than truly gifted individuals, so it tends to be our first thought when faced with slightly out-of-whack behaviours. Your DS could only be diagnosed by a qualified psychologist who will want a lot of detail from both you and the school. Do not be afraid to share with the psychologist your thoughts about your DS's possible giftedness and how this could be a factor in his difficulties. Also do not be afraid to seek details about the depth of experience and areas of specialisation of the psychologist your son is referred to. Good luck. I hope you have some clear answers soon.

"Do not be afraid to share with the psychologist your thoughts about your DS's possible giftedness and how this could be a factor in his difficulties." I'm afraid that I was met with hostility when I tried this on two separate occasions with two different Ed Psychos. Maybe I was just unlucky. One of them refused to even look at report from a Clinical Psycho and said that anybody could score highly on an intelligence test. I would test the water first, tread gently and broach the subject with extreme delicacy. I do hope that my experiences are not representative.

PipinJo I have messaged you - thanks. I guess that up until now we haven't worried too much about getting a formal assessment because we have supported and extended both our boys at home. We are in Kent so Grammar Schools are around as well - DS1 starts in September. Interestingly when we were reading the information from NAGC last night DS1 fitted the picture just as well, but without the sensitivities, social and emotional aspects shown by DS2. We are going to carry on focusing on DS2 for now since he needs some support with these and we hope a diagnosis may help this. DS1 is sitting Level 6 SATs so I know his school haven't been sitting back on their heels with him, and the Grammar School should carry on encouraging him to achieve.

So all advice on DS2 gratefully received. DH took it all quite well I am glad to say and commented that DS2 is still the same as before, it's just looking for a way to help other people understand him. I'm grateful for this attitude, since he is away so much that he often blames things that happen with the DSs on himself and his absences.