Siblings of G & T DCs - how to help them believe in themselves?

[Solo2]

How do other people manage the self-esteem of the sibling/s of a G & T child?

I have non identical twin boys aged 10 and it seems even harder with twins! DT2 is G & T at English/literacy skills at an academically selective prep. school. Not v good at maths and science (though holding his own) but extremely hard-working, loved by his teachers, good set of friends - despite having lots of Asperger's traits. He reads A/S level books on Politics for pleasure, has written several books himself, does the Times Crossword, writes poetry that's read out inc lass, shows parents round the school etc etc. So he's a particular 'type' of child.

DT1 however isn't G & T, although also at the same academically selective prep. school. DT1 WAS ahead of DT2 for his first few years and actually got a place at the pre-prep of the school when DT2 was rejected and labelled as developmentally subnormal. The school LOVED DT1 and said he was exactly the sort of bright child who'd fit in well but I decided not to send them there at that point, as I wanted them to stay together.

Fast forward a few years...DT1 did fine at the pre-prep they eventually both went to and then they transitioned to the prep. they're at now. DT2 has come on leaps and bounds. DT1 has 'held his own' but doesn't 'shine' and has low self-esteem and negative beliefs about his ability.

He has cognitive processing difficulties and this makes it hard for him to concentrate. He also has an attitude of 'getting away with the least he can', can't be bothered, thinks he's stupid and has actually gone backwards in the subjects he WAS good at. I always thought he'd be the maths/science one but also he WAS quite good at English too. He WAS way ahead of DT2 in maths but is now struggling.

Obviously, I am doing everything in my power to show DT1 that he's just as capable and loves as his twin but he's very down on himself. Whilst DT2 will - just for pleasure - be sitting typing away at his latest book or reading the classics etc DT1 - like any 'normal' boy, will instead be playing a computer game, trying out a card trick or bouncing a ball. So DT2's interests are practised for hours a day, thus taking him further and further ahead, as he does things like that for pleasure but none of DT1's interests help him to practice things he needs for school.

I don't want to enforce DT1 to do anything - other than his homework - that he doesn't want to do in his leisure time but as you'll know from your own G & T DCs, the continued practice of a skill will further enhance it and not practising something at which you are mediocre will NOT enhance that skill.

How can I help DT1 to realise his own potential fully - which whilst not taking him into the G & T realms, would certainly help improve his self-esteem? I focus a lot on what he excels at - things like helping me with IT, being very tuned in to other's emotions, good at drama, being good with younger children - but in the school environment and around other adults, it's always, always DT2 that shines and impresses. I rarely if even get positive feedback, spontaneously, about DT1. St DT1 regularly sees and hears DT2 'impressing' and 'stunning' others - and then compares himsefl unfavourably.

Like many G & T DCs, DT2 is quirky and eccentric and lacks subtle social skills and DT1 knows he does better in those areas - but he's currently also going though a stage of not feeling he has friends and has 'tagged on' to DT2's equally quirky, G & T friends and then compares himself unfavourably to them too.

I'd love to hear from others on this forum who manage the differing needs of a G & T child and one or more siblings who are not G & T. Even better, I'd love to hear from parents of twins where one excels and the other doesn't.

Bumping my own thread. Has anyone else had issues with the non-G & T sibling?

I wonder if there is a twins forum where you could ask for advice? My friend has non-g&t twins but they have very similar issues.

Oh dear . I think you do need advice from someone else with twins, because problems that can potentially be avoided or side stepped with siblings with an age gap are harder to deal with when your children are the same age. Basically, you seem to have two children at a school which is good for the self esteem of one and bad for the self esteem of the other, and being at the same school, the comparisons are harder to avoid, because everyone is expressing them in front of your children. Also, your twins are getting to that sort of age when it is normal to become more self-aware and start questioning oneself and ones self-worth.

Fwiw, I've read several of your posts in the past and I think you sound like a caring, thoughtful, loving mother who wants to do the best for her children and, whilst that doesn't solve the world's problems, I'm sure your twins will understand that you love them unconditionally and that does help a bit when you feel you live in a cruel world! I think you've also been through the possibility of out-of-school activities amongst different peers and it didn't work out with your work situation?? Nor, presumably, would sending your dts' to two different schools? (I think there wasn't a good alternative nearby?). Is all this still the case??? Is there anything non-academic your dt1 is happy to work hard at which you can get him more involved in???? Maybe at the moment he feels like you just pick on things that aren't important to praise him about as a consolation prize and he doesn't really understand how valuable they actually are? (Or is your main aim to get him to see that working hard academically is what he ought to focus on?). Could he do something similar to a Duke of Edinburgh award??? Or voluntary work? Something that helps him see that doing your best at something is a valuable thing to do, regardless of what sort of achievement it results in???

As many people have said to you before, take your children out of that ghastly school before it does one or both of them lasting damage.

Every time you post it's obvious to everyone but you that it's horrible and divisive and so bad for the self esteem of both your boys.

My eldest db spent the first 9 years of his school life in a school that was bad for his self esteem and it affected him for a lifetime. There is a risk that your dt1 could turn against everything which the school idolises - after all, they don't really appreciate him for who he is, nor does it sound like the sort of school which rewards pupils for their efforts if their efforts don't actually result in excellence.

Tahnks, rabbitstew. The good news is that they join the senior school next year, which is much much bigger (5 classes for Yr 7 and 7 classes from Yr 9)and as they'll (as always) be in different classes, it may be that lots of people don't even realise they're related, let alone twins. I'm sure this will help. I've explored all other local options and this is the 'best fit' school for both of them. It's just that I don't want people to compare them nor they to compare themselves.

Yes, DT1 has many other talents and qualities that his twin doesn't have and is keen to join the school's adventure society (IF I can afford the extras!) which will take him on trips around the world, climbing the Himalayas, doing charitable works. This will really suit him and some of the other more 'risky' extracurricular things like the rifle club and the climbing club. DT2 won't want to do any of those things.

DT1 is also better at IT and v helpful with me and this at home and v good with younger children, which DT2 is not. I'd really LOVE DT1 to develop some kind of better ability at one academic subject too. He asks some amazing questions about physics - none of which I can answer! - and if he'd only be able to concentrate more in class, I feel he'd race ahead of his twin in the sciences. DT2 isn't into science at all yet still does better than DT1 simply because he has the ability to focus and retain material and is v conscientious.

DT1 was born with the better mathematical brain but is also dropping behind there, whereas DT" - who used to be in remedial maths at his pre-prep - is now top of the bottom group! DT1 is around the middle of that group.

I think it'd help DT1 a lot if he could do well at one school subject and then forge ahead in other areas that are non-academic too. I'm sure DT1 will have much greater success in a few yrs time with girlfriends (he's the family good-looker!). I just need to help him feel better about himself now too.

I DO think it's a twin thing and maybe I should also try on the Multiples forum.

Seeker, I know we've argued on other threads before. I always have my DTS best interests at heart and the school they attend really is the best option for both. It's just that if DT2 didn't exist, it'd be easier for DT1 not to compare himself constantly!!!

Solo- it's nothing to do with them being twins, or g&t or anything. The school does not meet their needs. If it was a state school you'd be, quite justifiably, shouting from the rooftops about how awful it was. Because it's supposedly a top private school, you'r trying to find ways for your children to fit into their mould. This really, really is a bad idea- and will backfire. You should have your children's backs- not be on the school's side against them.

How is a school that is constantly tearing down your boy and making him do poorly in subjects that he previously was decent at a "best fit" for that child?

I'd suggest moving them to the right situation for DT1- it sounds like DT2 will excell wherever he's at whereas DT1 needs the extra help both in school and out.

I do wonder whether you have spent so much time legitimately ensuring your DT2 can gain some quality of life and understanding for his quirks that you have fallen back a bit too much on the assumption that the twin with more socially acceptable quirks will be OK one way or the other? At the moment, your dt1 must feel he really is on very shifting sands - he used to be demonstrably good at some academic subjects, now he is struggling. How can he trust you that he will always be good socially and in other respects and that these apparent skills won't, too, die back to being mediocre, leaving him special at nothing and unable to cope?

The problem I have with your description of the school is that it sounds very much sink or swim: no allowances made, or any efforts to understand, difficulties with concentration or attention. Either the child learns to control his own attention or he deserves to fail. Unfortunately, some children genuinely do need a bit more help than that to develop strategies to deal with their quirks of memory, attention and perception, particularly since the low self esteem that often comes along with subtle deficits like these makes it far harder for them to work their way through the issues all by themselves as well as coping with all the other demands in their day. Has your dt1 been offered any strategies to help him with his organisation and other skills, or just been demoted to a lower class when he hasn't lived up to expectations? The unfair thing about leaving him either to sink or swim is that the result is almost inevitably that he will fall further and further behind, because he probably doesn't learn in a linear fashion - hold him back because his processing is on a bit of a go-slow for a while and when he gets the sudden lightbulb moment of understanding that can help him make sense of all sorts of other things he could have been learning, he has instead been held back from making those other connections and been required to learn in a very linear way which doesn't suit him. One of my dbs was very much like this and was always in trouble with his teachers, because they couldn't understand how he could be effortlessly top of the class for a while, then appear to go through a patch of being lazy and disorganised and slow to pick up what was being taught, and then suddenly come up with a spark of an idea and be apparently super-intelligent again. I think, in general, this sort of intelligence is hard for a school to deal with, but I do think some schools deal with it better than others... So, I guess the only other thing I would ask is, have you yet been a sufficient advocate for your dt1 at school, or are you still scared to rock the boat, because of your determination to get both your dts into the senior school????

Thanks for the concern. My own fears are echoed in what you say, rabbitstew. I am hoping for better things in the senior school and both have already got a place there. So I've no fear now of 'rocking the boat'.

So I guess the school are backing DT1s potential, even if he's not reaching this fully. I had him assessed privately by a psychologist and the subsequent report led to an IEP being put in place at school. Effectively, what this means is that he gets a bit more time in exams and is allowed to use a netbook/laptop for lots of the longer written work in school and for homework. He's been told to carry around his school bag to lessons, to ensure he has everything he needs for each lesson, as a way of helping his organisational skills.

I'm sure the school considers me to be one of the 'interfering' parents, as I contact them about DT1 and have been on a few times to see how things are going and how best to help him. The last time I went in - a few weeks ago - they were v reassuring but sort of said - trust us to get on with it /leave it to us for a bit. This was inrelation to maths - as both DTs have been demoted for the second time - this time to the bottom of 4 sets. DT2 is top of that set and doing well. DT1 is still mediocre here. So that hasn't really helped.

DT2 will come home and whizz through all his HW alone. DT1 wil take ages to settle, needs reassurance and help and takes far longer to complete the same work or doesn't complete as much. This alone must be disheartening to him.

DT1 isn't floundering at the bottom, so the school think he's doing OK. But when he compares himself to DT2, he 'feels' inferior. Some other children in his class use laptops, carry around their bags, struggle with specific subjects. But he compares himself to his twin, not to the other children. His friendship group is now the same on as his twins' group too, as he became socially isolated in Yr 5. DT2 resents his twin encroaching on 'his' group - who are all the class geeks/ G & T maths geniuses. But they're a lovely group of boys. However, DT2 tries to 'take them away' from DT1 - which then makes DT1 either withdraw and go off on his own, or use his better social skills to 'take them away' from DT2.

It's very hard having twins! All the friendship groupings will be split up from September and about another 40% of new children will be starting the senior school. So, again, I'm hoping this will help.

I just wish DT1 could feel he 'shines' at something. He is one of the 3 leads in the end of school musical drama production but is already v nervous about it and saying he's the worst of the three. I'd love him to revel in a success in that area and enjoy his ability, although DT2 is also good at drama too.

DT1, I believe, was born a child with ability in maths/ science/ music and sport. I feel I've failed him because I aven't given him enough opportunities in sport - not being at all sporty myself. So he's now in the bottom sports group along with his twin - who is not at all sporty and v happy to be that way. I'm hopeless and maths and sciences myself, so haven't been able to anser half the questions DT1 ever asks me about science and physics and I already struggle with the maths HW! I'm v v like DT2 - and it's been a lot easier to 'click' with him, yet I adore DT1 just as much.

As a one parent family with no relatives around, the only adult influence and input has been from me and I fear that no matter how much I try to show DT1 how amazing he is, he must constantly see how unlike me he is, in many ways, and how alike DT2 and I are (in looks as well). I feel DT1 really needs a mentor or another concerned adult in his life. But how do I provide that?

By being the thoughtful mum you are and constantly looking for the opportunities and mentors you know he needs?

By not worrying and having confidence in both twins - nothing wrong in your older twin enjoying computer games etc - he's a kid - and he/you shouldn't feel he needs to swot for its own sake. Encoyrage him in stuff he loves - set a goal (an exam? a drama production? a thing to make? etc) for just him and you to work on together so he can enjoy quality time with you and feel proud of the end result. Make a big, big thing of this success so he feels good about himself. If you feel he's not pushing himself because he fears failing, then you need to be the positive voice to counter the nergative voices in his head - if it's just just he enjoys chilling then that's fine but still keep up the positive feedback and lots of interesting opportunities for him to take part in activities that he enjoys and excels at.

This sounds like my twin sisters. So difficult for a parent to manage. My mum put them in different schools, which both of them say now that they regret - as much as they like their friends, they'd have preferred to know each other's friends, to have more of a shared experience to draw on.

IIRC at about 12 the very-bright twin was confident and shining, and the merely bright one was really quite down on herself. And that was without the super-bright one writing books or anything exotic like that. Now they are both grown up, one does something esoteric with numbers and the other one does something glamourous with people.

Please don't feel you have failed them - they are only 11 and parenting journey goes on another 14 years. I am sure you will get there, just hold firm, watch and wait. As you say, the new kids coming in in September may well include some friends, your DT1 may well perk up. Maybe he will decide to learn an instrument or play a sport and find his own mentor that way.