How much does differentiation/learning at school really matter?

[mrsshears]

I'm posting this as more of a discussion really as it's something i have been thinking about alot recently.
My daughter is 5 and on the 99.9th percentile for IQ, she is not differentiated for or challenged at school and never likely to be at her level (if she stays at her current school).
My question is if the child is generally happy how much does this really matter? do they loose it if they don't use it? can school just be used as a social exercise and learning/stimulation be done at home?
I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on this subject.

Interested as I'm in the same boat. Tempted to let it go because he's happy but see other parents who are obsessive about it which makes me wonder...

I've just changed name for this because I haven't talked about DD's G & Tness on here.

I'm wondering about this myself as DD's progress seems to have stalled. She achieved a certain level at the second assessment point of last school year and hasn't progressed any further, but their assessment of her effort level is going down.

Have had a civil discussion with the Headmaster at our last parent teachers (just happens that he is her teacher for half the week) and he believes she is coasting, doing the main body of the work, but not trying for the extension work (which is how they differentiate, the higher level work tends to be in the extension) because she knows the main body will do. Essentially she's not motivating herself and she's not being pushed, basically a 50/50 problem.

My main concern is she's happy and she is, so I'm not jumping up down or harassing the school or her , I am looking for some improvement at the next assessment point. We have talked to DD about how she can improve things and I'm expecting the school to hold up their end.

I've started to push this this year because DD is nine and I want her to get into the habit of stretching herself before high school. I've known several bright children who strolled through primary and high school to find that A level's and above are a nasty shock because they actually have to try.

So my answer would be, based on my DD, I wouldn't worry yet. Your DD is still finding her feet at school and I'd be more concerned about social skills etc, just keep an eye on things.

My concern for ds (8) is that he effortlessly is good at everything. He therefore has not developed good working habits. His teacher says he is "exceptional" but "complacent". He says he is fed up of already knowing the answers to everything and not learning anything new.

I saw the problems that this can create when he recently took up a musical instrument. He was not instantly good at that and he found it very difficult to buckle down and concentrate on it. He does not know how to work hard at something and that really does bother me.

So my answer is that I think it does matter. Not for their intellectual development - I think you can deal with that at home, but for their approach to work.

That's really interesting goosey, my dd had piano lessons for a while but stopped having them because it was something she had to work at,which she could'nt deal with,she also struggles with being instructed which really did'nt help.

When my son was 8 I was told he had no 'learning stamina' which is absolutely true, and I was worried he'd coast like his father (who got outstanding gcse's but failed at a level). Luckily we managed to get an 80% bursery for a selective secondary school, where he's not top of the class and seems to be working hard now. (he never worked hard at primary afaik)

My son also hates music lessons

I agree with everyone else - I was able to coast at school and didn't ever develop good studying habits. Once you're a bit older, it's much harder to learn how to knuckle down. I was even able to keep it up in music lessons - scraping by in the scales and pulling up my scores in the set pieces. DH was the opposite and was a late developer - he is much more effective as an adult than I am.

Now we have the problem that DH is happy to let the school go gently on DD, whereas I am very keen on differentiated learning and keeping her challenged! Luckily, the school agree with me and are really pushing her at the moment. We've agreed that if she is showing signs of stress then we'll ease back a bit, but if she can cope with it, then why not? Far better than getting bored and spending the day daydreaming (my experience of primary school).

I have same thought regarding son he attained Level 5 maths at 7 and just asked taecher that what they were going to do as he has 4 years left and at year 6 expected 4/5 difficult without being pushy but they have set him some extra work etc to push his thinking skills. He is generally above average overall and is "gifted " at clarinet but I agree if a piece of musice tricky he gets all kevin on us. Whereas DD1 will work hard at everything and I believe her G&T status only because of this bloody hard work

My son is 5 yeaterday.Very poor socialskill when he started reception.At the latest PT meeting I was told he has improved in social skills and exceptionally good in everything.I was praised for all the effort that I have put academically.But my son feels that his teacher thinks he doesn't know anything and that she doesn't understand that he can do big boys stuff. He hates drawing and painting,which he has to do.he would rather build a wooden model.
Well I feel school starts with social and go forward :(

Stupidgirl - I would say in reception that social skills are amazingly important. Ds, although very bright does not have great social skills and cannot intuit social boundaries very well. This has required a lot of work and I would have been happy beyond measure if school had been on top of this from day 1. I also think that children need to be encouraged to do tasks that they don't like at school. Ds hated drawing for a long time - partly because (I think) he had poor fine motor control and found it difficult and because imagination and creativity was not really his thing. I think children need to develop in a broad way, not just focus on what they like.

None of it is easy though so good luck!

For me it depends on the age of the child. At 5 I think the social aspect is very important. DS is in yr3 and happiness is still my no.1 concern. DS receives differentiated work in maths - mainly different homework, a task book for when he finishes class work and when they work in the computer suite. (School has him down as gifted but he is not out there like some of your kids.) Like Goosey I am waiting to see signs of good working habits.

I can see my view moving towards happiness also comes from rising to a challenge over the next couple of years. DS does not play an instrument but we encourage a lot of sport for the being part of a team and having to apply yourself and still not being the best!

Well, I've always been very much of the view that you can become good at pretty much anything if you are willing to put in the effort and if you do something, you should always do it to the best of your ability. As a result, I think my kids get enough of that message at home and school is a welcome social break!!!! If I were to send my children to a highly competitive, academic school it would be a nightmare for them... They do both play the piano and have definitely learnt more from that how much difference effort makes than from anything they have done at school. I have seen, as a result, that they are now more willing to put effort into the things they find difficult, rather than giving up, but it hasn't stopped them coasting along at the things they find easy.

I think if you are naturally the type of person who pushes herself, you don't need others around you to push you further - you will just end up neurotically stressed in that sort of environment. If you are the type of person who is very laid back and goes with the flow, a bit of a shove up the backside won't do you so much harm. So, it depends on the child and on the child's parents...

That is an issue isn't BeerTricks - ds is tired when he gets home and wants to read his books, play on the IPad or do something fun and I think at 8, this is what he should be doing. I do say that he can only play on the IPad if he does 10 minutes of maths on it first (which is fun). I also kind of rush through some of the school homework and come up with harder but fun tasks we can do.

Well, mine are watching Dr Who right now... I don't think 20-30 mins of piano practice is asking that much. I guess if your children go to a primary school that doesn't stretch them but does give them lots of homework, you have a problem. Likewise if your children don't ever optionally do any maths or reading.

Mine finish school before 3pm and therefore have several hours worth of time after school to relax, to exercise, to play, to work. If they were at a private school, they wouldn't be home at that time, so would have significantly less "downtime." Someone else would be organising their time for them, though, rather than leaving it to them to decide or for their parents to organise for them.

I also have no sense of guilt expecting my children to clean out and look after their own pets. Plenty of ways of helping them understand that good things come with hard work, without asking them to do maths sheets and English comprehension exercises, or worrying about them being too tired to bother!

Difficult . I think it depends so much on the person. DH is exceptional in his field at work. He had no differentiation (that he recalls) read fluently etc preschool , read surruptiously/daydreamed in lessons etc. He is very interested and selfmotivated in learning about anything that takes his fancy. The odd bit of boredom did him no harm and there is monotomy in any job.

Happiness obviously priority. If I thought there was room for extension I'd push for it BUT only if DC was still happy, if that makes sense.

I think differentiation can come from the child as well in some subjects eg writing a better essay/doing more research into a piece of homework.

We all know some who have a questionable work ethos or fear of failure but who knows if a different upbringing would help them. Hindsight is great.

It's hard and any forum maybe squewed in their replies (eg more likely to be asking for help if they feel their past educational experiences could be better).

I've always viewed it as a matter of self-motivation. You can show your children why effort can be beneficial, you can set them an example through the way you behave, but you can't force them to follow your will. Yes, of course you can remove some of the temptations not to make any effort by ensuring they are in an environment where everyone is expected to achieve a lot, but I would rather my children chose to work hard because they wanted to do that for themselves than because they felt they had to in order to keep up/compete with others. If they are unusually bright and are already working at above the level expected of a child of their age, then I don't really see what the worry is about at primary level, as there isn't really anything they can't catch up with at secondary level - they are still being sufficiently educated to be able to do what they want in life. Whether they do work hard or not is up to them - they shouldn't turn around in 20 years and blame others for not getting them to apply themselves more.

As for showing that effort can be beneficial, with a bright child already achieving extremely well at school, I just find it easier to show them that by encouraging them to do things that they are not immediately good at but want to have a go out (like piano) so that they can see their own improvement for themselves, borne entirely out of their own effort, or by offering them something they can get pleasure out of but which requires a certain amount of love and attention if you aren't going to let it die (like a pet)! Getting a child to stretch him or herself at something he or she already knows he is doing plenty well enough at in school is always going to be a battle of wills if he or she isn't really interested enough to try. So why go through the battle - let them learn another way.