How can this be possible?

[LinguistDave]

I've been reading through many of the threads here, and I am astonished. No, I am horrified. My 13-year-old son is gifted, top marks in tops sets of everything, bored, all the classic signs and signals. We have trusted the educational system to track him appropriately, and challenge him as he needs to be challenged, but it hasn't been enough. This evening we met with his teacher, and learned for the first time that there is really no "gifted and talented" program in the school. In fact, reading here, there isn't much of a program anywhere in the UK. The school has nothing, my local council has nothing, OFSTED has nothing.

It seems the main method of dealing with gifted children is "give him a few extra maths problems, let him read an extra book." This is unbelievable! How can a country with schools such as Cambridge and Oxford set such a low standard and provide such a paltry opportunity for those children who are ready for education beyond their years?

Please, someone, restore my hope. Tell me that there's more out there than the NAGC and PEGY sort of DIY solution, that I've somehow missed some important information in my Google searching. (Not to diminish NAGC and PEGY; they have some great resources!)

i'd love to help, but, er, no.

if you can afford it (or find one with full bursary and qualify), some find academically selective private a better option that state, or look to more alternative schools like the green academy type. or home ed.

it only occurred to me very recently (like a week ago) that there are actually state schools for gifted kids in north america. (problematic in itself wrt entry point and early dx etc, but odd that they exist in on devolped western country and not another)

good luck with your continued search.

LinguistDave. I had the same problem with my very academic daughter who is now 12. Her primary wasn't what you would call "the best" and didn't really know what to do with her. As i posted before on other threads, she was also given just extra maths homework and told to help the less able children with their reading! She actually taught a girl to read. My daughter was not challenged or pushed enough and when i mentioned it to the school i was always told "look on the internet". What if i didn't have internet? What would i do? I was told by the school that gifted and talented was just a name and it didn't really mean or do anything. Now my daughter is in year 8 she is in all top sets for subjects except pe and dance. ALL the children in these top sets are called gifted and talented although they are not on the register (as i found out). So it really is meaningless and pointless. Good luck if try the independent route. Didn't get far for us - bursar of school we were interested in almost had a cardiac arrest when knew daughter was from state primary and fobbed us off, although her sats at the time were higher than required entry, the snobs.

I am a former teacher and most recently taught in a comprehensive in London. Our intake was very varied, and there was indeed a G&T lit and programme, as there also is in my DH's school (also a teacher). It is often up to a non-paid member of staff to deliver/organise, but there was a lot going on and a lot can be done. Speak to the school again, talk to the headteacher and or the governors if nothing is done. Don't make it about your child in particular, but the need to cater for all pupils in the school. There will certainly be an SEN programme and there should also be a G&T programme.

ahem (blush) G&T list (not G&T lit). Clearly not on the list myself

And by 'non-paid' I mean a teacher who has responsibility for G&T but isn't necessarily given any extra pay for that side of things.

No, that's your lot. The best you'll get is a top education at a highly selective independent school but even for an exceptional genius that will not be enough.

I would make it a two pronged approach.

On the one hand, speek to the school again; ask if there is any way he could join the older students for some classes/do a GCSE or even AS early etc.

On the other hand, speak to your son about how he can make the most of any project/homework going, by doing extra research, trying experiments of his own, maybe doing a documentary, getting into computer programming if his interests lie that way or reading up real research papers.

It is not that long before he is old enough to go to university, where he will be expected to take responsibility for his own creativity, so any early forays into this will be very helpful (and will look good on his UCAS form!).

The internet is a fantastic resource for all children (but especially gifted ones who want to explore their own interests) and to be fair most people do have access these days and it is available in libraries and schools for those that don't.

There are national challenge things designed to extend the most able in the country in a particular field and give the best of them further extension opportunities. If your school participates or can be pursuaded to participate then these are a fairly easy way for the school to give the more able a challenge a change to win a bronze/silver/gold achievement certificate and maybe even a chance to attend a summer school. Ones my dc are familiar with are:

1. UKMT maths challenges and follow on rounds. This is quite popular in schools though not all do it. If you do well in the challenge rounds there are olympiad rounds and if you do really well on these from about year 9 or 10 onwards you get invited to a summer camp for a week to do maths extension work or training for the international olympiad. If maths is your child's thing be sure your school enters him for these (you can enter at a higher level than your year group suggests as well as the correct age competition if you wish).

2. National Informatics olympiad - open to any school age child (I think), this one is for programming nuts. Do well in the first round and get invited to Cambridge for a long weekend of programming challenges; do well there and go abroad some place to represent UK at an international event.

3. Cambridge Chemistry Challenge (aimed mainly at sixth formers I think) - the L6 competition has a long weekend of stretch & challenge chemistry in Cambridge for the top scorers.

I'm sure there are plenty of other opportunities in other subjects too. I know there are other science (Biology, Physics, Chemistry) olympiads which I think are aimed at sixth formers for example and I'm sure there are more arty essay writing prize competitions that dc inclined that way could get involved in. While we might hope that a school might find these for the children, of course they don't always - but perhaps you can find a few that are in areas of interest/strength for your child and pursuade the school to enter them? These are all nationally organised events targeted at gifted children - it's not all doom and gloom.

Was it your local state school that provided you info and entry forms, gel? Or self directed? (curious - there obv are some state schools that have a better idea, but the op is right, there is no standardised access of info/ opportunity. Or any particular incentive for schools to do anything. )

(This post is quite long. Sorry.)
My son's primary was amazing. It certainly didn't hurt that the entire school (reception through Year 6) was approximately 70 students. The school had a Year 1-2 room, a Year 3-4 room, and a year 5-6 room. D (our son) went from year 1 to year 3, and was very fortunate to have teachers who could get to know him well and push him beyond his age group.

Unfortunately, when he finished Year 6, the policy was that he couldn't go high school until he reached age 11. So he repeated Year 6, but again, the teacher gave him lots of extra help, Year 7/8 work, and plenty of moral support. When he moved up to the local comprehensive high school (there's no grammar within an hour's travel), we were told "all incoming students in Year 7 are tracked the same. When Year 9 starts, D will be tracked into ability-appropriate classes." Well, Year 9 came, D was placed in all top sets (except PE, no surprise there, he's, um, "bookish" :) ). But, as I've seen mentioned elsewhere, "top set" just means "top 30%"... So we gave the school the first term to see if they would really recognize what to do with D.

When nothing happened, we asked to see the form tutor. He's never taught D. He didn't really seem to believe us, despite the mountain of supporting information we brought to showcase D's talents (the tons of things he does outside of school just for fun... like translating "Harry Potter" from German and French, like reading Neil deGrasse Tyson and Richard Feynman, like organizing his bookshelves using the Dewey decimal system). His suggestions were, "Well, there's Science Club once a week after school, and I'm going to start a Maths Club once a week as well."

Fortunately, D's Head of House is VERY enthusiastic about getting D the support he needs. He admits that there is no provision for any sort of G&T programme in the school, but he's willing to work to get D what he needs. He agrees with our suggestion (I hesitate to say "demand," but really, it is) that D should be moved from Year 8 to Year 9 with immediate effect, but isn't sure that school regulations will allow it. We're giving him a few days to do the research, make the contacts, and ask the questions. We hope (but are not hopeful) that by Friday we will have a successful resolution. Failing that, we're exploring other educational options.

In any case, we are still, 24 hours after our meeting at the school, absolutely gobsmacked at this stunning lack, not just locally, but nationwide. It's shameful.

Above, when I wrote "When year 9 starts, D will be tracked"... I meant "year 8"...

It sounds like he's doing a pretty good job of organising his own extension programme out of school, with the translating and science reading. To be honest, if he is a self-starter, following his own interests like that is probably a better way than getting a reluctant school to come up with a 'gifted programme' or enrolling him in some off-the-peg internet scheme which may not match his interests.

But differentiation/extension work should be available to stretch him a bit further in class - eg my DS (yr 9) is keen on maths, so as well as the usual maths challenges etc, his teacher gave him the GCSE algebra textbook to play around with, quite early in year 8. And he was very interested in a topic on ethics they were covering recently in RS, so the teacher gave him one of the books usually used at A-level for him to use as research for a long essay.

Presumably your DS doesn't have to spend too long doing the normal work that school sets him, so he has time to do what he wants - great! That's how I was at that age. I was moved up a year at school but still rapidly got bored with the too-easy work in the higher year - that is the problem with moving gifted children up a year, they still tend to progress faster than everyone else, so soon outgrow the new year - but few schools would be happy with repeated skips. To keep myself busy, I started teaching myself anglo-saxon, read several books a week - from literary classics to books on evolution and animal behaviour; I later took up tai chi and started teaching myself Chinese etc etc.

If there is a particular subject your DS is interested in, and there is a university near you, it might be worth looking into any open lectures, or contacting someone in the relevant department and asking for a reading list or someone to act as a mentor (the school might be able to facilitate this). And the internet is a brilliant resource - I wish it had been around when I was that age, I could have found out so many things and found like-minded people to talk to on various forums.

madwoman my dc are at independent school, so not state schools in my case. But my local state school certainly does enter their more able students for the UKMT challenges which seem to be fairly mainstream (probably a third to a half of UK schools do them at a guess). The others I mentioned are really more down to enthusiasm from individual subject teachers than type of school - certainly all school types were represented by the winners of the top award in the Cambridge Chemistry Challenge, and there was a bonus for the teachers too in that they were invited (along with the students) to canapes in the Houses of Parliament as part of the celebrations. Quite often competitions that have a cash prize have an amount that is given to schools too which gives more incentive to co-operate.

I've just thought of another: the National Cipher Challenge. Aimed at senior age students they can enter themselves as individuals or teams and it's free to enter (but need to mention to their maths teachers they are doing so). It's a series of 8 progressively harder ciphers to solve (the last couple are really quite demanding). There are spot £25 prizes for the individual rounds which you have a relatively high chance of winning and substantial prizes for the top three overall, plus the chance of going to Bletchley park for the prizegiving and the puzzles themselves develop non curriculum maths are fun, stretching and in my dc's case got them started on programming in a serious way (you don't need to program to do the ciphers, but it's much quicker if you do, so to have a serious chance of a prize it's advisable).

they all sound really interesting. my dcs were primary age when we left uk, so maybe some secondaries are doing good things?

it might give the op some ideas to wave at the school too.