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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

What would an assessment involve? How could it benefit DS

23 replies

LizaTarbucksAuntie · 08/02/2012 09:50

DS is coming up to 6 yrs old and gifted. We've been aware for sometime that the school although pretty relaxed about these things consider him exceptional. He has astonishing recall, he is working beyond Yr6 for Maths and English.

The possibility of assesment has now been raised. I'm looking for any advice on what that might involve for DS (and us) and how it might benefit DS.

He is really happy at school, they provide good age appropriate work for him and it's a really inclusive small Village school.

Thanks.

OP posts:
EyeOfNewtToeOfFrog · 08/02/2012 13:31

If there are any issues the school (or you!) are concerned about, an assessment will give you a clearer picture of where the problems are - and how to support them.

To give you a personal example (I hope you don't mind!) our school raised concerns about DD1 (now 7) and indicated it might be an ASD. The issues were to do with her behaviour. The assessment confirmed that she was indeed very bright (which wasn't a surprise) - and it also revealed a couple of inconsistencies in her cognitive profile: IQ on the 99th percentile and processing speed on the 42nd percentile, plus an auditory processing disorder (which was a complete surprise - we just thought she had extremely selective hearing!! Grin). It also confirmed no ASD - although there were a couple of 'quirks'.

I won't pretend it was an easy journey for us - but you sound a lot more calm approaching it than I was! And the results have definitely been worth it.

We have now been able to ask the school to deal with the APD and processing speed issues, and also prove to them that she really needed a different level of work (although that doesn't sound like an issue in your case). And we have been able to prove DD1 does not have an ASD, which one member of staff was convinced she had - but that's another story.

Good luck in any case - your DS sounds lovely and the school sounds supportive! :)

LizaTarbucksAuntie · 08/02/2012 18:54

Thank you, that's really helpful.

Since DS was doing some rather scary stuff as soon as he could talk I've always had this on my radar and I've very firmly kept my nose out until he was socially settled at school. However I think I'm suddenly anxious that if the teaching staff changed at his school, his set up would become much less comfortable for him.

I am fully aware that it might throw up SN issues (though his teacher is confident the only thing it will say is that he's ver, very advnaced) and to be fair if it does I'm happy to take that on if it helps him.

My DS is lovely thanks, I'm hugely proud of him and he's just the best boy ever and we are lucky with the school.

Thanks again for your response.

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rabbitstew · 08/02/2012 19:39

Tbh, I'm not sure of the point of an assessment for a child who is obviously happy, obviously bright and obviously being catered for sufficiently to retain his interest and desire to behave in class. Why assess him if you already know he's extremely clever with no issues????? It sounds like a bit of a waste of money to me if you and he are happy with the status quo.

outofbodyexperience · 08/02/2012 19:51

i would agree with rabbit.

dd2 was assessed because we needed proof that she had no learning disabilities for immigration. Grin (we knew she was bright and had none (she was working up to 7 years ahead of peers in yr r), but she has cp and so we had to prove it.)

dd1 was assessed at 10/11 - again we knew she was bright, but because we moved o'seas, the local policy was that children who might be suitable for the regional gifted program were tested to identify specifics. we certainly wouldn't have bothered. she's entirely nt and has no issues, just bright and works hard.

we were never intending to have ds1 tested. we've always known he's bright (nursery wanted him assessed on his thrid birthday but the lea laughed at them) and he does have some quirks. he's ten now and after six years of suggestions of gifted/ as/asd/odd/adhd/ apd the paed finally suggested we just get him tested. so now he's coded for both gifted and sn (adhd dx).

if ds is happy, content, entirely nt and school are differentiating appropriately, then there really isn't a necessity to assess, except out of curiousity to see where he falls. there's nothing wrong with being curious, but there's no necessity. as an aside, the assessment results for all three dc have been entirely spot on in terms of identification of strengths and weaknesses, no surprises at all. (i use weaknesses in a loose term - personal weaknesses as opposed to peer group averages). the only thing it gave us was the numeric score and ranked them by centile in comparison with peer group. which was entertaining, but more vanity than use personally. Grin

if school are suggesting assessment, i am curious as to why? ordinarily access to ep is fairly tight in state, so either they have no kids with sn that are on the waitign list (unusual) or they have some reason to suggest it? maybe they aren't certain they are meeting his needs?

iggly2 · 08/02/2012 21:45

I would say if he is happy, content, interested in everything then why assess? If anything it risks unneccessary attention. The school sound unworried about anything socially and realise how intelligent your child is. I think if there are no problems why try and alter anything.

LizaTarbucksAuntie · 09/02/2012 09:07

Thanks for those comments.

Have I used the wrong phrasing again? I always seem to fall foul of this and people get the wrong end of the stick.

No one is suggesting SN at this end (as far as I'm aware, it's not been mentioned) I was resopnsing to Eyeof Newt saying it might throw up some issues.

I'm curious what you mean about unecessary attention iggly....

I' have no idea what you mean by ep outofbody

Maybe I'm in the wrong place for advice about what to do with my gifted child as I've got no experience of giftedness and I'd hoped this forum would be a bit more accessible to a parent dipping a toe in such a scary unknown than the formal organisations. Apparently not.

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EyeOfNewtToeOfFrog · 09/02/2012 14:45

Oh OP, don't give up on us yet :)

There is rather a trend of heated debating on this forum - and, erm.... I seem to have a different opinion on many things from most people here, so I wouldn't be surprised if what I write sometimes influences people to post the OPPOSITE opinion! Grin (But please trust me - it's (mostly) intended as good natured!)

I assumed in my original response that school were suggesting assessment - which would mean they are concerned about something. I now realise that it might not be school who's suggesting assessment - in which case ignore my previous answer! :)

EP = educational psychologist, schools have access to this service from the LEA.

Can I suggest you might have a look at the NAGC website? here There's lots of useful info on giftedness, assessment, etc, and should you decide to join there is a very supportive & friendly members-only forum :)

outofbodyexperience · 09/02/2012 14:50

Ep, Ed psych, educational psychologist.

The one that will do the tests if you and school decide to go ahead.

I think we are only mentioning an because that would be a trigger to getassessed. As there is no an suspected, there's no real reason to. (and your op noted it might throw sn issues to be honest, although unlikely)

It's the same tests for gifted and learning disabilities. They just add on a few optional extras if specifics are suspected.

So for nt kids, if they aren't being supported appropriately in school (ie given extension work or whatever) then an assessment can help you suggest to school which areas could be extended. Your school are already doing this, so an assessment would just be a way of saying 'oh, look, everyone. We were right.' which is fine. But isn't by any extent a necessity.

I was just curious why a school would use their ep budget on a child who is ahead of the game and happy, and being differentiated for appropriately. Normally there aqueue of kids who are wait listed.

Unnecessary attention - I assume just highlighting he is different. You and school know that already.

iggly2 · 09/02/2012 17:11

"Unnecessary attention - I assume just highlighting he is different" that is brilliantly put thanks OOBE. Different in some areas (but so is everyone).

Children are learning so much and do notice differences (briefly DS got a bit boastful-no bullying problems but it may have developed later). With DS's school they are doing their best to keep things discrete different work is given to him but he remains within his class setting and for us this is working really well (he is happy and engaged socially and academically).

iggly2 · 09/02/2012 17:22

I guess I would be worried about my child wondering about the assesment, also if the teachers knew then would they make a fuss.......

outofbodyexperience · 09/02/2012 17:22

Oh, I also assumed that it was school that had raised the possibility of assessment... Apols if I got the wrong end of the stick as well!

If it's a private assessment and it's just out of curiousity, fair enough. But it won't change anything unless something unexpected comes up, and you sound pretty certain that you know ds's strengths etc. as he isn't yet 6, I might be inclined to leave it a few years in any case, as school are supporting him, and maybe think about it again at 8 or 9 when you are considering secondary? (unless anything crops up in the meantime, like getting bored or school concerns etc). It can be expensive. We paid £650 for dd2, school paid for dd1, and the cost of ds1's assessment was about £1800, but was a full psycho-Ed assessment with add-ons for sn, and claimed through benefits as the school would put him on the waiting list which was about a year long. We waited a year for dd1's assessment through school.

Dd2 was tested at 5 (but not for school purposes), the others not until 10 and 9 respectively (both linked to school requirements).

I have no idea if that's even helpful... Blush

LizaTarbucksAuntie · 09/02/2012 18:52

The school are not concerned about DS behaviourally. I realise I'm probably sounding like an arse given you're all here because you have gifted children but it's sort of the extent of his giftedness which is flagging up. It is a tiny village school with 60 pupils and we all want to make sure DS is getting access to everything he needs, I guess I feel a bit nervous about going to NAGC at the moment because like here, I really don't know the 'rules' - like a bit 'proud Mum'.

the other kids in his school are aware he's 'different' but they are all amazingly proud of him (it is a lovely environment and all credit to the teachers for that) and older kids will ask his opinion especially on science related issues (very sweet but they really do mean it and take on board what DS says) and everyone seems to really support all the pupils there (I think they've had one or two sports gifted kids there as well)

Just for clarity, I didn't mention SN in my first post, I responded to the possibility that an assessment 'might' raise issues which is why I've steered clear before (and that I don't want DS to have any sense he has to live up to any expectations)

Thanks for coming back to me again I am very tentative about the whole thing and feel there is something of a tightrope to walk in DS's best interests so am happy to be put straight. I really don't want him under any pressure but I also want to feel he's getting every opportunity he needs.

Thanks again.

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 09/02/2012 21:23

There's no need to feel you are walking on a tightrope. It sounds as though you have a well adjusted, intelligent, happy and liked child, so to be completely honest, I still really don't understand what you are so worried about. Normally, when there is nothing wrong with a child, the parents are quite happy about that. He sounds as though he will need less help in life and will be more capable of making his way in the world than most children and if his intelligence is that apparent, then why would anyone need an IQ score to know how to cater for him? It's not as if there are specific school syllabi for specific bands of IQ, or specific schools open to children with particular scores in an IQ test - you normally have to take an entrance exam set by the school, instead and most schools have no interest whatsoever in the child's IQ score if it can't pass their entrance exam.

Or is he actually rather unworldly for his age and you are worried about him getting some hard knocks later on that he won't be able to deal with? Not that I'm sure an IQ assessment would help you or him deal with that in any way.

I'm sorry if it sounds harsh, but I don't really understand why any form of assessment is being suggested, because I don't see what you could gain by it.

rabbitstew · 09/02/2012 21:25

Is he hypersensitive to stimuli? Or anxious about the world? Does he find it difficult to get to sleep? Can he socialise normally with children his age? Does he feel comfortable in his own skin?

outofbodyexperience · 09/02/2012 21:54
Grin Well, assessment will tell you what his iq is, and standardize where he is in relation to his peers, but other than give you that knowledge, it won't really do anything else.

In context, dd2 was tested half way through yr r (as I think I said, because we needed proof that she didn't have a learning disability for immigration purposes). She came out above the 99.9th centile pretty much across the board, and has (as her pediatrician likes to joke about as it's higher than his) a pretty scorching iq. In real terms, the testing showed she working between 3 and 7 years ahead of her peers.

No tightropes required. Grin nothing changed at school. She wasn't moved up a year (no real point in moving a child away from their peers, and isolation can be tricky for bright kids if they are made to feel different or treated differently, same as any other kid), she was already being differentiated for appropriately. So as far as school were concerned, it was an interesting report to read and then stick in the file. Grin in truth it has been useless subsequently in new situations where people are liable to fall into the 'aw, bless, what a shame' camp.

It was bloody useful for immigration though. We didn't even have to appeal, and normally with cp you have you to prove you won't be a 'burden on the state'.

Ds1 scored the highest the psych had ever tested for maths problem solving. including grad students. He was 9. We were more interested in whether the psych was able to dx asd or ADHD, although it has meant that the school have made up their mind what to do with him. They were toying with moving him up a grade overall, but the ADHD ex means that he will stay where he is. They are currently assessing him so that he can move up a grade or couple just for maths. But they were going to do that anyway, they were just waiting for any sn dx. He's now trialling some medication which is helping him get his words out. He had so much bouncing round in his head he was virtually unable to answer a question. The psych commented on the single sheet of paper he used for the 45 minutes of maths problem solving... There were just sums and scribbles and symbols covering every available surface. But he kept refusing a blank sheet. She said it was a bit like what was going on in his head.

The only one that needed a test to prove she was more able was dd1, and only from school's pov, as they couldn't enrol her on the programme without test results to show she was working over two grade levels higher than her peers across the board (a policy thing - interestingly the same policy that means dd2 was initially told she wouldn't be eligible. Having cp means her handwriting is crap Grin)

So, there's no need to be worried. I would just sit and think about what could be improved for ds. If the answer is nothing, then it probably isn't worth it.

But assessment isn't scary. The ep will make it huge fun, and ds won't feel under any pressure to perform, it will just be a fun way to spend an afternoon. Kids at school get pulled out to go and do x with mrs y all the time, so it will be just another day at the office. Smile

I'm not sure why you're why you're worrying, either. Smile I'm assuming it's because of the way most of mn treats the parents of kids who are more able. And the general distaste surrounding the g&t board in general. We're quite normal, really. And we don't even tell you iq scores unless you really want to know. Grin

Sometimes being brighter than average causes problems, and sometimes it doesn't. It's ok to have a kid who's clever. It really is.

We just get a bit wary in here because periodically there is a bunfight and we get accused of bragging and being odious.

As suspected, There's one going on now.

LizaTarbucksAuntie · 10/02/2012 07:10

rabbitstew - you do sound harsh direct :) but it's fair, the question I actually asked was what would an assessment involve and how would it benefit DS. You seem to be saying, 'writing down a number which has not correlation to how happy DS is' and 'not much'

Shall just carry on as per with my darling boy then.

Outofbody...I worry because it's my job with him..far too much history to explain why in a nutshell but the comment and the idea of explaining it has reduced me to tears :)

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 10/02/2012 08:23

Sorry to reduce you to tears, LizaTarbucksAuntie Sad. I wasn't singling you out, I'm direct with everyone! What you get is my own internal dialogue, which I regularly use to flog myself!! There is nothing wrong with raising the issue and asking for opinions and it isn't silly to worry about your child or wonder if you are doing the right thing, it's completely normal, I know that - I spend a lot of my time worrying about my lovely children. But I also spend quite a lot of time reminding myself how lucky I am, too, and how some of my concerns when I analyse them are not really justified at all. It doesn't stop me raising them with myself from time to time, though!!!! And finding hearing other opinions useful.

LizaTarbucksAuntie · 10/02/2012 11:37

No you didn't not like that! the directness was fine, what made me cry was answering outofbody's question about why I worry about DS. Whole other conversation for a different time and place.

Really rabbit you didn't upset me.

Thanks again

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 10/02/2012 14:05
Smile
outofbodyexperience · 10/02/2012 14:33

Ok, I will chalk it up to complete misunderstanding over tinternet.

Hadn't intended to grill you and reduce you to tears, was really just trying to get to the root of what was worrying you so we might be able to reassure you.

Of course it's a parent's job to worry about their children. But tbh if a child is happy, well adjusted, has absolutely not a care in the world and the teachers think he's pretty clever, it can take me some time to try and wrangle something to fret about. Grin I'd manage it of course. Because that's what mothers do.

So if you're not worried, great. If you are worried, but just in a vague sort of mothery way, great but there's obv a back story that I'm unaware of, so apols if I've put my foot in it.

I'm kinda lost as to the direction this thread was meant to go in, tbh, so I'll just tootle off and let you direct it back on course, as I'm obv not helping. Blush

Hope the assessment goes well if that's what you decide to do, and that the outcome is whatever you need/ hope for. X

LizaTarbucksAuntie · 10/02/2012 14:38

Oh gosh - no you haven't done anything bad outofbody, there is a backstory which is relevant I guess but to do with me not DS. (abusive exh systematically destroying my confidence in my ability to be a mother....'do you think you should be carrying him? he's only new born and you're so clumsy you'll drop him' pretty much sums it up and it took me a long time to get away and is taking even longer to get over - that's only a snapshot but hopefully gives a flavour)

I posted without any real idea of a direction just a vague idea that I ought to start arming myself with some knowledge about what giftedness means - I didn't even know what 'assessment' meant after all. I've had some really helpful pointers.

Thanks

OP posts:
outofbodyexperience · 10/02/2012 15:51

Ah ok.

In that case, I think you are doing just great. The choice about assessment isn't a life and death one, and you can chill out and relax in the knowledge that whether you choose to go ahead or not, everything will still be ok. Smile

The nagc website is good. You could also look up hoagies. Lots of the stuff also talks about possible difficulties that can occur with really bright kids, but important to put it into perspective... Loads of kids who are 'gifted' have no problems at all - it's just that if they do, it can be linked to their ability, or can be as/asd related (the term 'twice exceptional' sometimes comes up) and so the issues do get discussed and debated a lot.

But there's no law that says gifted kids also have to have social difficulties, aspergers, or whatever. It's just that some do. So don't go looking for problems where there are none! Wink I think that's what I might have been clumsily trying to say earlier...

A lot of the stuff does refer to levels of gifted ness, so if you are interested (and promise not to fret over the resultsGrin) then assessment might tentatively be a good idea. If you are the sort of person that needs to know (and that would be understandable) then hey, ask school to go ahead and test.

Apols for any misunderstanding x

rabbitstew · 10/02/2012 20:56

I'm sorry to hear about your ex dh. You sound like a fantastic and caring mother to me, doing what you can to protect your ds and make sure the world around him is caring and understanding.

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