Lets open a can of worms - what are the pros and cons of letting a child go up a year.

[ohmygosh123]

I'm in France at the moment, and my DD has been put up a year in the French system - all very normal here apparently. In the same way repeating a year is quite accepted. Basically you technically have a choice - but saying no was not a real option - and DD has thrived on it, both friendships and academically.

We'll be coming back to the UK eventually, but in the meantime the posts about putting children up a year has got me thinking. Is it a good plan or not. (I was put up a year and it didn't make school that much more interesting - I still snoozed through most of it.)

How does differentiation work - and do they do it in independent schools? Or is it more state primaries that do it. Then how does it work when they go up to secondary school? Do they keep the differentiation up - I can't work out how they can, remembering what my school was like.

So what do they do with kids that are like little sponges and can't get enough of learning. And what do parents do?

I don't have a proper view either way - but am very interested in other people's experiences. All I want is to keep DD's desire to learn alive.

TalkingPeace - I would have said exactly the same thing in principle, despite being quite happy about being a year ahead, until I saw how happy my daughter was to be moved up to be with children that she identified with. I think identified with is the important thing. If they feel they belong ....... then I wouldn't want them to have to repeat a year later on.

My friends at uni were primarily those who had had years out (ie my academic year) rather than my year of age. Or in years above. Sorry you had a crappy experience. I was only a December b'day, and the tallest in the class, so that probably helped.

I have an April birthday (so in the latter part of the year already) and skipped a year when I was 7 - when from year 3 direct to year 5, and stayed a year young right through school and university, so took A levels just after I turned 17, went to university at 17 etc. I was quite pleased about it because I disliked school most of the time so was glad to be spared a year of it!

It was fine academically but it was only actually stimulating for about six weeks and then I'd caught up and went back to being bored. Socially I had a bad time though more for health/family reasons than age I think. Perhaps it didn't help. I was lucky because I was fairly mature and also hit puberty early (started periods at 11) so was in-line with most of my year (starting at 12/13) - much less disastrous than it might have been, and I couldn't do sport for health reasons anyway. But I wasn't remotely happy academically until I moved to a v. v. academic sixth form for A levels, so from that point of view it failed.

Overall I think it was pointless for me if not actually damaging. In my experience, if a child is really far enough ahead for this to seem worth it, accelerating a year is not going to address the problem. If the difference in ability is small enough for skipping a year to make a lasting difference, I really don't think the social risks are worth it.

Ohmygosh - I knew plenty of people who'd been moved up a year in school at Cambridge who were fine. However, I never actually found anyone who felt they had a particular advantage from it. I also knew a few people who had been moved up more than a year and they did seem to suffer confidence-wise.

For me the main issue is that moving up a year doesn't really solve anything (except in the case where a child is a better total fit for the year above). Acadmically, a year's advancement is nothing. I was about 3+ years ahead throughout primary and my teachers coped. If the child is really really bright in one year, he/she will quickly be top of the second year as well. If they find the next year hard work then they probably shouldn't have been moved up in the first place.

I think this has been said though.

In my experience, most independent schools will take a child a year ahead of themselves. I think they've now sorted the thing that if you took exams a year early the league tables showed you as having zero passes in your 'true' year :) However, the more academic schools will be more hesitant as they will not see the need.

I actually went back a year between primary and secondary as I moved back to the UK and the academic year cut off was different. I do remember being a bit in shock at the lack of independence (but I think that was more moving from HK to UK!) but otherwise it didn't really matter. I did move to a very academic school from a much less academic one so academically I wasn't costing.

I was out up a year in primary and the experience was awful

I was bullied, and the lifelong repercussions of that have been that I have lacked confidence. I made dreadful relationship choices. I always worried what others would think of me. I would have been a million miles 'further' if my parents had just LET ME BE.

It really wasn't worth the agony and the lifelong repercussions for the sake of 'stretching' me a little - I was already able to do what the higher class could do, so where was the stretching?

hello,

TBH, I'd question the relevance of experiences from 20 or 30 years ago. There is much more empahsis on emotional well-being these days.

My current experience shows that, (our) state school simply doesn't have the resources to provide differentiated work for bright children. In a class of 34, where the priority is pulling up the less able children, my DD (who has been advanced a year) and the other bright kids are pretty much left to their own devices.

Socially, it's been fantastic for her - tall, confident and with friends who 'get' her. I wouldn't change the social aspect at all. On the contrary, I think not advancing her would have made it very difficult for her socially.

As far as I'm aware, the intention is that she will move to secondary with her classmates.

KatCan - that's interesting. My understanding was that state secondaries don't get funding until they reach the right age, so they won't take them. I talked to one of the local primary heads about the possibility of moving DS there (from independent school) and she said she would have no choice but to put him back into his "proper" year group, because otherwise he would reach the top of the school and have to repeat the year (because the secondary school couldn't/wouldn't take him early), and she didn't think they could do well by him if he did that (due to lack of resources).

stealthsquiggle - that's what the school said, which I guess is a world away from what might actually happen...they've not always been the most switched on. They made us lots of promises during the consultation that they've never followed through, so no reason why that one should be any different.

We're investigation independent schools now, anyway, so it all remains quite open. I'm in total agreement with whoever said bright kids need to be in an environment where being clever is seen as a positive....I feel you're just not going to get that in the state system (in my experience as both a parent and a student).

good luck, KatCan - that's always my reaction when people ask about state vs. independent for bright children - if you can afford it, it doesn't matter which it is - it's about finding the school where everything (most importantly culture, but also resources, etc) is in place for them to thrive and achieve their potential, not just some arbitrary measure of "good enough".

I was up a year for a few years. I remember only really mixing with the other 2 or 3 children who were also up a year and not mixing with the children who were older than me. I agree with the poster who said that (in this country) it is a very lazy way to cater for a bright child. All that will happen is that the child will at the top or near the top of the next year group up. They will be robbed of things like:

1. Learning to drive in the lower 6th - instead watch their classmates do it.
2. Possibly going to university with their new year group - had a friend and her university of choice required her to defer a year due to her age.
3. Puberty - I had a friend and although she was tall and looked reasonably as though she was in our year group, she didn't get boobs/periods etc at the same time as the rest of us. We all talked about this sort of stuff, but she was unable to join in.
4. Age restricted activities out of school with school friends.
5. Social skills/norms in general are often a problem.

It was not a huge issue for my friend, but it was always "there" IYSWIM.

If your DD is very bright, I would go for a scholarship when you return to the UK. She will have a great chance of getting one if she is competing against children of her own age. Also, you can't generalise the approach of schools in the independent sector. You should contact them individually asking how they would help your child/how they help children in a similar position. Having said that, the independent sector are slightly more flexible with moving children up or down a year. I know of a boy who is up a year and a boy who is down a year (both at independent primary). TBH, in these two specific cases, both boys would be better off in their correct year group. Neither have benefited from being moved and both are just that slight bit different to the others in their respective classes. I wouldn't consider it for either of my children, one of whom could easily be moved down a year and one of whom could easily be moved up a year.

I know quite a few children that have been advanced a year, 2 boys and 5 girls that I can think of off hand. Of these, one of the boys repeated a year (it was year 6 or 7, can't remember which) to be in his correct age group and then went on from prep school to one of the elite boys boarding schools at 13 at the normal time. The other boy stayed a year ahead with no problems at all, he was an all-rounder, bright, musical, sporty, popular, head boy and went on to oxbridge.

One of the girls, (this was 30+ years ago, the others are all more recent examples) was not allowed to transfer to (state) secondary with her cohort and so repeated year 6 to rejoin her correct group. She hated this and it took a while to settle into her new year group. She was fairly bright, but not exceptionally so and achieved well (good exam results, RG university). The other 4 girls all stayed a year ahead through secondary and all except one did/are doing well but possibly not exceptionally so, in the year ahead. I have a hunch at least a couple of them would have faired better in the correct year where they may have really shone, but who knows? One missed her university offer and had to retake A levels; another who was top of the year at age 11 has slipped back somewhat and has anorexia (not sure which is cause or effect here); one seems fine. Any problems might have occurred whatever year these children were in, it is so difficult to know what causes these difficulties or indeed if any problems might have been worse in the correct year. The child that has not done well, really struggled socially and has massively underperformed to the extent they may not get good enough grades for university at all, but this may well have happened in any case as there are probably underlying issues.

So, from this very small sample, I conclude it can work well, but doesn't always and it's really difficult to know in advance how things will pan-out for your child.

gardenplants - you're right, it is a very lazy way to deal with bright kids, and that's been our experience.

Don't know about anyone else, but our school has a real culture for deferment. Kids as much as 4 months from the cut-off are considered for deferment, so if you take DDs class, she's the youngest (by 4 weeks) at 7, and the oldest kids are already 9 (because the were deferred). So there's already a broad mix, with kids hitting milestones at different times. Puberty can kick in at 9 or not until 14/15. Yes, she'll have to wait until she's 17 to drive but....tough, that's life! University isn't the only option, and a gap year isn't the end of the world.

That said we've already hit some bumps in the road e.g. girls in her class moved from Rainbows to Brownies, and she had to wait 4 months before she could do the same...but I think we dealt with it without her being scarred for life!

I know my posts always sound like I'm massively pro-advancement, but I'm not especially! I just think sometimes certain things are right for some kids and not for others.

KatCan - I am with you. I am not generally pro-advancement, but can't say "never" because DS has been moved up a year, and it does work for him (so far!) [crossed fingers] - we had a few issues like Beavers/Cubs, and a holiday club where he would have been in a different group, but seem to have got through most of them OK.

stealthsquiggle - yup, and we'll have to see what happens now DD has been selected to play recorder at a music festival where the youngest age group is 8, but the visiting music teacher didn't know she was only 7. Well, I keep asking the school to write things down!

Glaurung - 'Any problems might have occurred whatever year these children were in, it is so difficult to know what causes these difficulties or indeed if any problems might have been worse in the correct year'

Thank you and well done for the balance in that sentance....sometimes sorely lacking on here, I think.

DS got picked to play U11 rugby - and then un-selected on the day of the match when they realised that he was only just 9 - which makes me want to shout "FGS - this is NOT NEWS" 'twas sorted, and lots of people apologised to me and to DS, but it was annoying.

My DS is youngest Y2 (aug b'day) and despite being 3 academic years ahead in all subjects, I would never advocate him being put up a year. My DH and I both were (my Dh was put 2yrs ahead) and it was socially disastrous, and my DS is socially immature at the best of times! My DH is vehemently against it, he was 16 when he went to Uni, and said it was very hard emotionally ESP. Leaving home at such a young age.

IMO a school that wants to bump the a year is taking the easy way out for them not the child, they are supposed to differentiate and whilst 3 year differentiation is tricky, it is possible! Although I think my DS school fails on some points, they do an amazing job for my sons year which is Y2 but has an academic range of Reception through to Y5, in only 8 children!! Poor teacher ;)

September birthday, was put up and repeated years several times up to age 11, hated it really disruptive, luckily my best friend had birthday a week before and same happened to her so I always had a friend. At 11 went permanently up a year at comprehensive, worked out perfectly I was tall and developed for my age, would have stood out like a sore thumb in my correct year, was in top sets for most things.
I think having the physical and emotional maturity to move up a year is more important than academics, school is not just about exam results. a good school should always be able to stretch the most able.
The nice thing for me was I had graduated by the time I was 20, took a year off to travel and got a few years experience so doing well in my career by the time I was 23 / 24 whilst a lot of people my age were just graduating into call centre jobs.

Oh forgot I was barred from doing a few things, like work experience and cycling proficiency as I was too young, so sat at home for a few weeks twiddling my thumbs which was annoying.

I think it should be banned! I was put up a year at school, didn't make much difference academically, I still found it easy, but by the time you get to teenage years it makes a difference socially. I chose to take two years out before university to right things for myself. Differentiation should happen within the year group. You wouldn't put children in different classes because they grew at different rates; don't put them in different classes because they learn at different rates. School is about more than acquiring knowledge. It's about acquiring friendships, social skills for life, confidence, self esteem. It's not so easy to acquire those things out of your year group as you get older. Just my opinion.

Well, I have experience of both sides of this as I live in France with my eleven year old DS, but my now 27 year old DD was put up a year missing Year 6 out. She went straight to selective indie secondary (boarding) from Year 5. She did fine. Her birthday is October though, so she was only technically 2 months younger than the true youngest for her year, although a whopping 14 months younger than the oldest. And she was a girl, relatively mature etc.
My DS was in French school but 3 years ago we took him out as he was not flourishing the way he should have been. He has flourished since and will be off to selective indie secondary in the UK this September.
My DD decided to leave her boarding school when DS was due, as she was desperate to be around him as a baby, so we let her, thinking that she could do A levels virtually anywhere, which turned out to be true. She herself did indeed have a certain amount of notoriety from the start as everyone seemed to know she was a year young for the lower sixth. She had very good GCSEs, and went on to good A levels in French, German and English, then off to University to do french (we moved to France just as she began Uni) and is now a teacher.
Maybe she was a little behind the others (thank god) some of whom were indeed having sex at an early age.
My DS is now miles ahead of where he should be in his french school. He should be in sixieme (Year 7)although he would be Year 6 in the UK, and I have never regretted taking him out. There were children in his school who had been held back a year, and some who had jumped a year, but it was a very small school with only four classes from age 2 up to 11.
My friend's son (they are french) jumped a year (probably GS) and then when he got to lycée he redoubled seconde and premiere! So he spent FIVE years in lycée.
I think the redoubling thing is a far worse thing for a child than the jumping a class, and much worse for them.
Humiliating when their friends move on without them.
But pretty common. Also not so good if they are reasonable at most subjects but one or two have let them down. They still have to redouble the whole year. How dispiriting can that be?
Hence the move to uk indie for DS.
Best of luck with your daughter when you get back to the UK. Try a bit of home ed and she'll soon be ready to go into the class you want her in. If you are planning on her starting in September, take her out of french school now, and start work preparing her for UK school.
My son has done the UK curriculum, plus Latin, and of course French. He was fine in his exams and finished pretty near the top out of 500 applicants.

Another one who was advanced and only experienced cons. For me I was terribly unhappy and still have hang ups related to this 31 years later. Fortunately my parents saw how unhappy I was and I was moved back to regular year. Like talkin this on my list of things I would never do to my child.
In my chronological year I went on to achieve 3 As at A level and two degrees.

Unless you are in a system where it's a normal thing to do, there are no pros.

A child at DS's school skipped a year from Reception to Yr 2 (he therefore missed a lot of basic stuff inc. phonics). He then ended up repeating Yr 2 (at his Mothers request) and is certainly no further ahead than his peers.