Y6 level 6 extra SATS papers

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Anyone's DCs schools doing these?
DD2 has been offered the chance of joining a group doing the maths one.

Many subjects (pos. all, not sure as I tend to only look for my own humanities subject) now have a level 8 plus an exception progress level. Most children will be level 4 by end of year 6, level 5 by end of year 7, level 6 by end of year 8 and level 7 by end of year 9.

Level 7 by the end of year 9 - that's what I remember from my (grammar) school though I did the level 8 paper in maths and possibly English.

My DSDs (twins, 13 in yr9) got mostly 5s in their tests last week. That's not good is it :(

Sorry talking bollards above about progression having tried to type and feed small children at same time. On average children are expected (by gov) to make two full levels of progression by Key Stage, so if level 4 at end of year 6 then level 6 by end of year 9.

I agree with soupdragon.

Year 6 is all about teaching children to pass a very specific style of test to the detriment of the rest of the curriculum.

@fuzzpig - I would not worry unduly. They are only 1/3 of way thru the year and the measure is supposed to be for the end of the KS. Plus it only measures how they did on that test, on that day which has got bugger all really to do with how they are performing on a day to day basis.

Depends which school your children go to, MoreCrack - we make sure we provide the broad and balanced curriculum that the children are entitled to receive, and so do many other schools.

Y6 in my school is the same as the other years. Literacy and numeracy in the morning and 'topic' all afternoon.

Thank you adoptmama. Fair point about it only being one term in. They got mostly 5s in yr6 so not much progress in 3 years really - though one of them had a scribe as she is dyslexic. Ironically she was then refused help in secondary because her SATs results were too good

I think exams have their place and you need to practise them as you are going to need to be used to them later. We do have an increasingly exam/qualification based society.

I do think though that they should not be everything especially at primary school as the ones you take later are more important. Keeping interest going and not just teaching for these exams is more important along with not panicking a child. I see no point in the exams being too easy so introducing a level 6 is good if it will challenge the more able.

'Depends which school your children go to, MoreCrack - we make sure we provide the broad and balanced curriculum that the children are entitled to receive, and so do many other schools.'

My daughter's school seems to have a fairly relaxed attitude to SATS ( at least outwardly).
However the school in which I work- inner city primary, high levels of FSM, 41% EAL- is as I described in my last post. If our Y6 pupils are to achieve L4 they need an intense intervention timetable and a huge emphasis on SATS style questions within maths and literacy lessons.

In the current climate of judgements made almost entirely on SATS results with little account taken of context, we must achieve the results or risk being judged as failing, despite excellent teaching and incredible pastoral care.

Top 8 (based on recent SATS Tests) in DS's class will be going Level 6s as well - the thing that gets us though is that doesn't it prolong the testing process for them - we have it in our diaries that they will be done the week after the 'official SATs' in mid May - not sure if it's one extra day of tests or two, but still it's a bit unfair on them...

Why can't they just do the Level 6 SATS - surely there's scope for them to get Level 5s if they fail to reach Level 6 standard?

I recognise the pressure all too well, MoreCrack, and I work in an inner city school with high levels of FSM, and currently 38% EAL - we still manage to start revision at Easter and never stop any subjects because of SATs. They never impact on the curriculum which remains the same as in any other year. We have lots of interventions, but they start in Reception where our children enter well below average.

They can't get level 6 even if they attain it on the level 6 paper unless they get level 5 on the others aswell.

Stupid.

Feenie, that's mad!
I'm hoping now that DD1 will say no to doing another paper - not that she can't do the L5 but the whole system just sounds like a pile of crap and not at all about the children's achievement.

I know DD is bright, so do her teachers, we get very concrete feedback on what she should be working on next and how to support it at home and basically it ain't broke so I don't really feel like fixing it.

If you look here:
www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/assessment/keystage2/a00200264/key-dates-for-key-stage-2-assessments-in-2012
it tells you about the exam dates.
The secondary I work for isn't too impressed with level 6 appearing again at primary as it puts the pressure on them for their value-added KS2 to KS4 results!

That is impressive, feenie.
Our school also begins intervention in reception, but with the very high level of pupil movement we find that children come to us in y4/5 with huge gaps in their knowledge, particularly in maths.
Consequently much of their afternoon is filled with small group sessions on, for example, place value.

Movement of pupils in and out of the classrooms at these times means that many children miss key areas in science.

I'm sure it is possible to achieve a better balance, although I still feel that SATS contribute to a pressurised environment in y6.

I am not a teacher, btw.

Yes it seems L3-L6 i.e. more than the two levels of expected progress will be good for the primary schools value add mark.
I can see it causing a knock on effect at secondary.
However, I don't think DDs school has much choice, falling pupil numbers mean small schools have to shine.
The head needs parents to choose her school and middle class parents not to leave for private part way through.

I posted a thread a while back referring to my DD in a 'failing' school being encouraged to take L6 papers but with no prep (and that's in a school where the whole KS2 curriculum has not been taught). Well, to cut a long story short, I negotiated the school down to just maths as that is where DD really shines, but after weeks of nothing but repetitive practise of the basics along with the rest of the class, I'd pretty much decided that all L6 papers were out of the question.

People on the previous thread had suggested lots of useful resources, some of which I'd purchased, but without dramatically affecting DDs other activities (swimming and music) which she really enjoys, we just didn't have the time.

Anyhow, this week I was called into school to be told that they'd like DD to sit a practise L6 paper (from last year) as she had done particularly well in a recent practise test. I was very sceptical but agreed to it on the basis that we'd identify gaps that needed work and then plan some actions to help with this. Anyway, DD has sat first part of the paper and scored 21/25 - I am gobsmacked! She was able to figure out probablity and graphs with absolutely no teaching, either at home or at school. No other child in this class scored a L5 in the main paper (shocking, I know, but indicative of the problems in our school).

I have always felt that DD is very able, but if in another school would only appear in the normal range of ability, but towards/at the top (ie no genius). I wonder if experienced teachers/parents could give me their opinions on what this means in terms of DDs ability and where I should go from here. We already have a great secondary lined up, thank God!

My DD school does not do the L6 papers, which is a pain as she was a 5a in everything (5b in maths) at the end of yr4, so assume that she will now get the same level for the next 2 years?

Regardless of rights and wrongs of doing the level 6 paper, in the absence of past papers does anyone know of any resources that can help, I for one do not want DS to turn over the paper and find the layout and type of questions making DS upset over what could otherwise be something quite straightforward and fun.

All, you'll find the 2011 Level 6 sampling papers here : www.freepastpapers.co.uk/sats-key-stage-2.php

Thanks for the link, he has had a go and said they looked like the 3-5 papers he has been practising at school so at least he his comfortable about it.

Yes Sticklebug.My dd had been getting 5a from year 4 too and she got the same for years 5 and 6. Couldn't take a level 6 paper as was told they got stopped years ago. Head tried to get one for dd to take and was told NO. On entering high school she was put into top sets and given an assessment in maths(three papers) and got 7a,7a and 7b. Now in year 8 she is on 8a and has already gained A* gsce. Your dd sounds like she could be heading the same way. Keep it up.

I had a look of these L6 past paper.(Thank you Julraj, the link is really helpful.)
It's a very good paper,based on ability rather than laboured practice.But, I am surprised the pass mark is 25 out of 50! A L4 child might be able to 'pass', what's the point?Something is ruined.

DS' school are doing booster classes out of school time for those sitting level 6 - would you send your DC? It seems like a poor idea to me, as surely they should be differentiating work in class if the children are working at a different level, rather than expecting the kids to give up their free time to do yet more SAT practice. I can see its a sacrifice for the teacher to spend time out of hours with extra classes, but wouldn't the children benefit more from booster classes in their weaker subjects rather than their stronger ones? Interested to know if other schools are doing the same...