Private or state?

[mrsshears]

hi everyone
I thought i would start a new thread for this,we may be in a position soon where a move to private could be an option for dd,other than finacial implications what other things should i consider if we decide to move dd?
I also have a few questions, if anyone can help i would be really greatful
.Is private always better than state? are there bad private schools?
.Is diversity an issue? (sorry if that sounds offensive to anyone but i hate to think dd may be the poor child surrounded by wealthy children).
.Has anyone moved to the private sector and regretted it?

Thanks in advance

They will have expected you to contact others so I probably wouldn't mention it. Wait until until your child has sat the entrance exam, see what % bursary each school offers then pick the one which suits your child/your purse.

It's always a good idea to look at the displays as you go around. If they are all perfect and only include the same children's work then I'd be suspicious. Little things like this indicate the competitiveness as well as the fact that they focus more on the high achievers (just my opinion). Staff turnover is a big thing, unhappy staff will leave en mass. If there's been a huge recruitment drive there will be a lot of new teachers so I'd be wary of this. The same goes with finances, staff will be replaced with temps.
Check out the school's financial status with Companies house. The last thing you want is for your child to have to move schools because they are in a financial mess. Also ask about parental involvement. Some want parents to take an active role (taking your child into the classroom each morning, helping out in the school etc). It's best to know how much work is involved.
Uniforms can be expensive so ask about the second hand uniform shop. The expensive items like blazers (start at £70) can be bought a lot cheaper. Girls usually need a summer uniform as well as a winter one. Ask if items can be bought anywhere, not just an outfitters as these are expensive. Ask about the fee insurance/accident insurance. This is quite cheap (£30 a term) but is it added to the fees or payed seperately. Also, are lunches included? What are the meals like? (ds's first prep used to serve up dry pasta and home made chicken nuggets with nothing else). Do the children eat in a dining hall with teachers sitting with them? (helps the children to learn good eating mannars).

I hope this helps

Thanks ladysybil that is very helpful

[impatient emotion] friday?

OP I think you need to ask yourself what you're trying to achieve for your DC and then ask yourself if the schools you are looking at offer what you need.

If you are looking for your DC to be stretched academicall in particular, I would be looking at rigorous and flexible setting early on in as many subjects as possible. Differentiation within a class is fine but personally I don't think it can match putting together a group of pupils around the same ability. Much more interesting and collegiate for them. This will require a reasonably sized intake though.

I would also look for a breadth of subjects taught by specialised teachers. Latin, French, Spanish, Music etc..with regular proper lessons (not a perri popping in for an hour a week). And the humanities again taught by specialists.

I'm sure some would say too, to look at the selective schools. Certainly their intake would be of higher ability and may be more akin to your DC.

I

If I were you, I would stop asking yourself the question, "private or state?" Look at both and decide which you think would make your dd the happiest, provide a reasonable education and leave you with enough money left over to feel secure, enjoy time outside of school as a family and plan for the future yourselves.

Don't just go for the school that seems to offer the most extra curricular activities and sideways stretching if in reality you have the time and inclination to organise that outside of school for your dd (with a bit more choice as to provider - no school is absolutely perfect at everything, so to rely on the school for everything is not necessarily the best option). If you don't have the time to do that and don't enjoy doing that, and don't enjoy having to spend any time with your dd sideways or schoolwise stretching her yourself... then find a school that does all that pretty well for you, offers a good academic education and offers a homework club so that you don't have to bother with any of the hassle. If you can afford it, of course. Otherwise, you just have to consider the academic side of things, the school's ethos and your ability to organise the "missing" bits outside of school. I suspect your dd will be happiest where she finds at least one or two other like minded children, which will make your choice harder, because you have no control over who else enters the school in her year and what their personalities are like, but I guess a private school will have more control over that, for better or worse (or a very big school with a diverse catchment area).

As for attitudes of parents - you will only find those universally obnoxious if the whole school has a problem with its attitude and therefore attracts that type, so you ought to be able to tell... And as for parents regretting their choice to educate their children privately, my parents bitterly regretted their decision to educate my eldest db privately up to the age of 14 and constantly bring up the subject of his education and their belief that they did the wrong thing by him. As a result, I was entirely state educated - even though my dsis had enjoyed the private school she went to (although when she switched to the state sector, they said they wouldn't accept any more of my parents' children, so there you go!). You could say, it's better not to pay for your mistakes... I have to say, though, I was the happiest of all my siblings all the way through school and the most academically successful (and had the most hobbies - lots more spare cash for music lessons, round the world trips with orchestras, etc). Having most of my hobbies outside of school also enabled me to meet a wider selection of people.

well i'm really really
lovely head,lovely school,happy polite dc who looked like they were really enjoying themselves,so why aren't i feeling good? i don't understand it?
I don't know if its because its a world that is a bit foreign to me or what?
Dd is going for a taster day in a few weeks time so it will be very interesting to see what she thinks and i have more schools to see in the meantime but i just don't get my own feelings?

Maybe i felt a bit intimidated?

Give yourself a few days to let everything you saw percolate. Did you get any answers to your questions from them about how they would meet DDs needs?

Feeling intimidated and probably, therefore, slightly out of place, is not good.

Maybe they were all over confident?! Or all too similar?! Or all so apparently happy, confident, fresh faced and clever that it didn't feel like the real world (ie was either an external image that didn't fairly present the reality of life at the school, meaning you have to investigate further, or they really do live in a parallel universe where nobody ever experiences hardship or upset...)?

It does sound to me as though you got the advertising image and didn't feel you could access the reality on the one visit.

Give it time! Don't jump to conclusions yet. Have a look at the other schools, let your DD have her taster day, sleep on it. You're not in a desperate rush :) Your feelings are clearly trying to tell you something - it's decoding what that message is that takes time sometimes!

wait itl you have something else to compare it to. gut feelings about schools can be useful.

Thanks eveyone,all really useful.
adoptmama the head was very much talking about challenge within her own age group until she is older as he feels its important for good social development too,he also spoke alot about a good bredth (spelling?) of education and using your knowledge to work at things which dont come as easy too(he put it better than that but thats the general idea).
rabbit The children were very confident,they were all very confident in speaking to the head as well,even the really little ones.
I think i will book a visit with another school for next week,when i sit back this afternoon i do feel better about it,i think its maybe because its all so different too,there really was nothing i could say i didnt like as such.

Sitting on a train with time for a bit of input here. Read the thread. A word of warning based on our own experience after 8 + years in the private sector with different children.

Now is an exceptionally turbulent time in the independent sector and you need to remember that whilst it is relatively easy to leave the state sector, it can be very difficult to go the other way, as you are effectively "out of the loop".

In our case, over a 5 year period, our independent junior school dropped from a roll of around 70 to 27. Caused by a variety of factors - local over supply, the opening of a nearby private co-ed which started sucking in girls, the recession etc. But salaries have to be paid from somewhere, and as the roll falls, fees go up, and discretionary staffing - specialist music teachers etc start to fall away. Fees have increased very significantly... Many parents who opt for private schooling tend to do so because they are attracted by the autonomy, self regulation and responsiveness - and on a day to day level, this has always been the case - but then when the school hit the buffers and had to merge with another school, we discovered that in fact as parents, not only do we have less power than in the state sector, but the school is owned by an unaccountable charity of do-gooders - the great and good who give their time for free and retired military types who do their best but who have no experience of change management - this translated into one of the most stressful and demoralising periods of our lives - very upsetting and a strong sense of £100,000s wasted.

So have a look around at where these schools sit within the broader plan for school provision in your area and try and think long term. I suspect, for example, that new free schools, as well as expanded grammars, depending where you live, are going to be the undoing of many midrange independents, along with a growing trend to move back into the state sector for a level.

And the other rather grim (sorry to be so negative) reality we are starting to have to deal with are friends disappearing at the end of term because they can't afford to pay anymore. Whereas, 5 years ago, the school would have worked something out, the climate has changed now, and more parents falling into difficulty mean greater demands on limited resources, combined with a need to behave in a more transparent and accountable manner because of the charitable status issues.

The other thing I have learned is that above everything else, the key to the success or otherwise of an independent school - more important than anything else - especially in challenging times like these - is an inspirational head. So ask around and find out what other parents think of the head.

I would check for full classes/over subscription and also plans for upcoming investments in facilities as these may well indicate a good financial situation.

For me pupils having confidence is very important.

You might check whether they offer (or plan to offer) the IB in the sixth form. Useful to know what your options are.

I would probably want to know A level breakdowns by grades and subject, as well as a breakdown of destinations.

And how many left for a different sixth form and why.

The surrounded by "wealthy children" thing rears its head occasionally with my youngest, but I tell her not to be so superficial - she is 12 now and will periodically bang on about other peoples' swimming pools etc to wind me up, although in practice, there is a good mix. Some brats though - they are probably everywhere - one girl, blissfully no longer with us, used to draw circles around pictures of large properties in the local paper and tell her mum they could have one of those if she would only go out to work.....A bigger issue for us is the many sacrifices we have made - long hours, holidays, all the usual, which I am occasionally no longer convinced were "worth it".