Boys singing treble - when can you tell?

[PrincessOfWails]

At what age do you know if a boy can sing treble? Just wondering really. DH was a good treble, and we have 2 DS (one of them is only months old, mind! ) and we were wondering when you can tell. DH says he can't remember.

You'll know by the time they're 6ish though in general they do better just singing for fun at that age.

Choir schools select at 7-8, an a raw but talented singer can be turned into something remarkable in the following years.

But it's not a heritable characteristic, though you are a musical family, the early exposure your DCs will get (with your even trying realising) will have a really positive influence.

Umm not sure what you mean?

" treble" is just the word for a boys soprano register voice. They all sing treble ( well or badly!) until their voice breaks.

If you are thinking of a serious singing " career " for your son , then lots of general singing and voice trial at 6 plus depending on which cathedral / school you are looking at. Contact the potential places early and they'll advise you.

Potential choristers need to be bright, quick on the uptake and usually extremely good readers ( words rare than music- they'll learn that) for their age. Just having a good voice isn't , at least at the younger end , the complete answer to suitability.

( chorister parent of 3 for the last 8yrs!)

As Theas says, treble is just the technical term for "child's singing voice" whether they are good at it or not. Girls also sing treble at this age, and their voices change to adult singing voices as they get older, though not as obviously as boys. If you'd like your DC to have the chance to sing in choirs etc, then just expose them to as much music as possible so that they hear plenty of it, and take them along to music groups aimed at their age groups to get a chance to sing, clap ryhthms, etc.

You should be able to tell if they like and enjoy music by school age or so, and also if they're likely to have the kind of temperament to want to commit to something like a choir - it takes a lot of time and effort, and lots of paying attention and doing as they're told, so it doesn't suit every child!

(Mother of one now-very-ex chorister!)

Ds is 7. At 5 I was told his singing voice was exceptional. He did solos at school concerts and a weekend performing arts class. At 6 he passed the audition for our local church choir (they don't usually allow them to join until 7/8). He has one service a week and two choir practices. The standard of music is high and he has a lot of music to learn each week. He loves it and is always singing. He will probably audition for a choir school next year if he wants to.

The only negative thing I've found is he refuses to now be in the school choir as he says it is too babyish. I'd agree about the lots of paying attention and being told what to do. His choir mistress is very strict indeed. He has no problem with either which is in contrast to how he is at school - always being told off for not focusing and not listening.

I started in choirs at 5, church choirs at 7, competitive and cathedral at about 8 or 9. (When I was a girl we weren't allowed in the good choirs so the B-team only at cathedral.)

Seven is normal, I think, for boys who are aiming for the schol route. My brother left it too late for cathedral, really, and ended up taking the later NYC route to uni. Did him no harm musically and he got a different schol anyway for school.

MollieO. Whilst maybe he needs to learn to be a bit diplomatic about school choir (lol) it could be he's made the right choice if thru dint have a singing specialist leading it.

My ds never sang in the school choir at primary - it was poorly lead and " shouty" and he noticed that . He wouldn't have enjoyed it and to " sing" like they did wouldn't have done him any good.

( on the other hand DH has had. Lot to do with choir training in a primary where they had a singing specialist from the music service , and it was really good).

Don't forget, chorister training is for girls as well as boys these days too ( though the financial benefits re schooling etc are still boy biased)

He went to the first school choir meeting at the start of term and refused to go again. He said he didn't want to sing songs with accompanying actions. I couldn't argue with that! It is just for years 2 and 3. The older years have a choir where admission is by audition but you aren't allowed to audition unless you are in the right school year. If he passes his chorister audition he will have changed schools by then.

He will have to put up with a lot of bad singing if he wants to be a chorister. You do a lot of community and interfaith interschool stuff as well as all the keen concert hall stuff. I certainly remember we were often roped in to be the backbone of a "city children's choir" or similar, where it's non selective.

It's a pretty good lesson actually - learning to enjoy singing as an experience, not a performance, and not turning into a complete dick about it. But, he's only five, heh, he could learn the bit of improving morality when he's more up for it.

Good musicians are notoriously arrogant so MollieO's son will fit in well!

My son is the same and he refuses to join the school orchestra as he gets impatient with the constant stop/starting. It's not a nice trait and I have to remind him all the time to be gracious. He is moving from a Cathedral Choir to go to Purcell but will join the local church choir. I will be on his back constantly not to act as if it's beneath him!

To the OP, I noticed at age three that DS could sing back all the radio pop songs with ease. I wouldn't say his voice stood out at that point but everything was in tune and correct. It's difficult to know what is good and its only when you hear other voices that it becomes clearer. In saying that DS does not have the child-like angelic choir voice of most of the choristers and he sounds more like an opera singer as it is very powerful. You can only try them out but if you are keen then immerse them in fun music.

Bizarrely, and belatedly, my spectacularly tuneless but loud 5-yr-old ('DS2 sings with enthusiasm and some idea of rhythm', according to his clutching-at-straws reception teacher) has morphed over the years into a rather good treble. At 13, he'll be doing the 'Once in Royal' solo at the school Christmas concert... if his voice hasn't broken by then. It's showing suspicious cracks and wobbles this week.

I don't see why musical children wouldn't want to sing songs with accompanying actions mollieo. My DS1 goes to music classes at the junior section of a conservatoire and the kids in his group (Y1/Y2) do actions with songs all the time, as moving in time to the music helps them develop a sense of rhythm, and coordinating movement in time helps when they are playing their instruments.

Just caught up with this. I don't know why he didn't want to sing music with actions either. I assume it is just very different to what he does in church - music in latin, spanish, traditional english and no actions.

He may change his mind when he sees them perform at the school concert!

I think some children find songs with actions start to distract them from the music - I know my son needs to know the words and the tune before he will sing, and if he's asked to do actions as well it becomes a choice between singing, or doing actions. Because at least some of the actions are things they might have done when smaller, it's easy to dismiss them as "babyish" because you don't want to do them ... He's not so keen on his school pre-prep singing session now he's in year 2, at least some of the time, but I think that's mainly because he'd rather be singing more interesting stuff than engages the littlest ones. But they're stretching him when they can already and he'll start as a probationer next year so I think he'll get enough musical challenges to keep him happy!