is it weird to ask for last years SATS results now?

[Joyn]

The school didn't tell us anything about the actual exam results although we have been given their overall assessed NC levels. I am happy with the results he got, I just want to know if his exam results were the same or better than the teacher assessment, (which I now think is likely). I don't doubt the teacher assessment or anything, I'm just interested, but now as the moments passed I just think it'd look a bit odd, (also as he's now in a different class, his current teacher obviously won't have his results to hand & would have to look them up). I hate that I'm so curious, it's just that it's been bothering me because ds recently made a comment about being told in class (last year) that his teacher said he got 100% in his maths SAT. Is it petty/weirder is it ok to want to know as an interested parent?

I think you are entitled to ask for this information. Either ask at the office or put it in writing to the head saying you'd like to see or be given his results both Teachers Assessment and Actual Mark scores. My school sends out both Teacher assessment and actual grade achieved - but not the actual marks achieved - I see no reason why you could not be given all this information. Just ask nicely!

I do not think it is odd to wonder (It is your child!). I would have expected some results to be on reports. Could you ask but if it looks like they are not forth coming say "Oh it dosen't matter".

Personally I do not like the idea of children getting 100% on tests (though if this is keystage 1 then that is not bad, as they are still so young). If key stage 2 onwards I think it could be detrimental as later on a lack of challenge can lead to feelings of failure if near 100% is not obtained (even when the results are still very good).

Iggly - DD got every question right in her KS2 Maths. What mark do you suggest she should have been given?

Personally I do not like the idea of children getting 100% on tests (though if this is keystage 1 then that is not bad, as they are still so young). If key stage 2 onwards I think it could be detrimental as later on a lack of challenge can lead to feelings of failure if near 100% is not obtained

Should teacher deduct marks (for child's welfare), is that better/more reliable than child dumbing down? Assuming child won't be traumatised by knowing they completed a perfect paper and something went wrong. Isn't that how torture works, where there's no link between action and result?

To get 100% in every test is not good over the longer term (eg going off to Uni). My DS school have a think against putting a cross on work (fine when young I would be a bit when in year 6). Longterm nobody gets 100% in everything (eg if you took maths upto Uni and postgrad). I think more difficult tests, when they get older are better.

Think of it as the test has not shown what he is truely capable of he could very well have completed parts of a more difficult test (next keystage etc). give the result as it is but I am saying another test maybe more appropriate.

But the Key Stage 2 tests (and you did say KS2 and onwards) are meant to test what an 11 year old should be capable of, there would be no point in having lots of increasingly harder questions that most 11 year olds could not answer (and would not be expected to be able to answer) just so that a gifted child could fail to score 100%.

When schools used to enter their g&t pupils for Level 6, they took a separate paper (this had been abolished by the time DD took her KS1 SATs, but I believe it is now being reinstated)

On entry to comptitive Unis/jobs they will often quiz you till mistakes are made or you do not know the answers how you deal with not knowing is important. challnge and dealing with it is important.

It sounds by reinstating further tests they are trying to test for gaps in knowledge but also how great the knowldge and intuition are (a good thing in my eyes). The idea of separate papers so they can be given out where appropriate is very good.

It will also really help spot children that are very bright but have not been identified for various reasons if they perform really well.

Are you talking about the Year 6 tests? The test level should have been reported to you alongside the teacher assessment - that's a statutory requirement.

Yes, Rustybear, externally marked tests for Level 6 reading and maths start again this year - but teachers have always been able to teacher assess at level 6.

iggly it'd be great if tests shed light on strength of thinking and intuition. They would make some of the tedious rote delivery of the primary school NC slightly more bearable. But we all know that's not what SATS are for. So why not let the poor beggers get the 100% and move on?

Truly G&T kids relish it when they find something challenging, it makes life exciting. Not a sense of failure but of discovery and chance to expand, learn. Failure is for people who are afraid of what they may be. So the 100%, even at A2, first degree level, is not detrimental. They already know the world is full of mysteries they haven't met.

I know plenty of G and T who something less than 100% would feel like failure (for some with perfectist traits). I think this could help them, if others do not have this trait they will enjoy the challenge. I think if this can be helped at an early age in a supportive environment of a primary school rather than away from home this could be good. Add to this it is a test that longer term is not that important in comparison to others (most schools if selective have other enterance criteria and school will often set on arrival etc).

I think anyone getting 100% is obviously very bright and the chances are this will be known by parents/teachers. By getting 100% you are not finding out anything new (other than they know their stuff-which you probably knew already) I think this is an opportunity to really identify strengths and weaknesses (to use the test for the childs advantage as well as just the school).

What about their doctoral thesis, even the most gifted is likely to have corrections of some description. I doubt a great undergraduate English student in a Uni exam would get 100% for an essay.

Most kids (even old ones) will spot the difference between a limited test and a more open one, and the very different value of 90% in each. Most doctoral theses are not life/world changing, anyway, and ,by then, is anyone really bothered about what teacher thinks anymore? Given they've lived their thesis for a good while.

I do see your point, we just disagree about how important it is. Is perfectionism an excuse for ill-judged obsession? The problem is not the test but the child's understanding of what it means. I hope we may at least agree that absolutely no G&T child will be informed by a SAT score of 100%. Nor would be taken in by an adult reducing that score. They would simply think even less of that adult.

The English thesis equivalent to say a Maths 100% is not in the numbers, but in their enduring worth. We both know that's rare, so why not celebrate it if we see it in our lifetime?

I would not agree with a score being artificially lessoned but more appropriate content in the first place, or at least a continuation exam.

I think that your comment is great. "The problem is not the test but the child's understanding of what it means."

It was his ks1 SATs exams. He was given 3b, (in English, maths & science,) as the teacher had assessed his class work at this level, however, he was then told he got 100% in English & maths (and 3 questions wrong in science). He also sat the higher papers, but I haven't a clue how he did in those. I do think 3b is probably a fair assessment of his class work, (he only got to 3b in writing about a month before the tests, but had been 3b in reading & maths since christmas,) so I'm not put out by it, but I had just assumed his test results were also in line with that, until he started telling me about it the other day. I also didn't know he'd done the higher paper.

I think its great the teacher gave him the higher paper . Well done your DS.

Am happy for any teachers to clarify but as far as I know the levels in Year 2 are based on teacher assessment with the tests they do being one piece of evidence that informs the teacher assessment. They can also be taken at various times of the year although ma-y schools will do them in may or June

I also believe that children should either do level 2 tests or level 3 ones (although they might do different levels in different subjects I suppose) but that they shouldn't do ie level 2 reading and then level 3 reading as the teacher would know through their ongoing assessment which paper the child should sit.

So did your DS do level 2 and level 3 tests? I'm not quite sure from what you have said.

My DS is in year 3 and got level 3s in everything but I have no idea what he got in the tests. Hope he hasn't either tbh but I'm sure he'd have told me I'd he had :)

You're spot on with all of that info, ASuitableGirl.

Thanks, for all the replies.

I started a different thread before to find out exactly what level papers he would have done, (i really am quite new to this, sorry,) his understanding is that he did the normal paper with his whole class (a level 1-3?) then some of the class also did the same paper as the year above, which I had assumed was level 2-4, but I've since been told (on mums net) that there isn't actually an interim paper, but that all the way through ks2s dcs do the level 3-5 paper. Please correct me if I'm wrong. As I said before I'm happy with the grade his teacher assessed him to be, I'm just really curious to find out if he actually did better in the tests than he has performed in class.

Oh, does anyone know if when kids do a sat exam in yr 3 if they (usually) do the level 3-5 paper & if so, do they actually do the whole paper, or just part of it, depending on what level(s) the teacher thinks they are able to do? Thanks.

Hi Joyn. My dd is very able and g and t and all that rubbish. She took paper 3-5 in year 2 and got 3A but expected level is only 2B i think it was and some didn't get that. In year 3 she took the same paper and got 4A. Year 4 she took the same level papers and got 5A. And in year 5. And in year 6. Ridiculous. Yes i think they do take all the paper but i remember the lower abilites, including some who couldn't read properly, having the questions read out, but i am sure they took the whole paper. I suppose they would have to take all of it as they wouldn't get a proper score? Best wishes.

Thanks Ibizagirl. Sometimes I feel like you need to actually need to be a teacher to understand fully what your kids are doing in school!