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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

school has surprised me!

427 replies

blackeyedsusan · 08/11/2011 13:38

last week I asked for harder words to read... one (or more) groups have been given spellings!

I also asked for more challenging books as the yellow band books were a "little easy." given that we are reading easy chapter books at home they have put her up one band. I am shocked as we normally play a little game every couple of months where I say the books arer too easy and they ignore me and we carry on doing our own thing in our own happy way. once pmt has passed Grin

ok so she could spell the words first time at home and green band is not a big leap, but i do not know whether she will cope with spelling in a test and at least the green band books are a little harder and we can get something out of it now. she has been asked to practice adding numbers in the teens as she doesn't use the number line to count on. (tends to do these things in her head) well we have practised and introduced a strategy of using number bonds of single digit numbers to check teens+ addition (ie if 2 and 4 =6 then 12+4=16 and 22+4=26 etc) doubt that will go down well! Grin I hope she talks about her strategy at school.

I think I want to push for more, but not until she has had time to try out/prove herself for another month or so. (after all she might go to pieces under test conditions and we have a lot of work to do on handwriting) anyone fancy sitting on me and administering the duct tape for the next month?

(disclaimer, i know she is not doing some of the stuff other really bright children do at this age, though she is the top end of normal and I post mainly because i as fed up of the lack of progress ith reading in school compared to home)

ps, sorry about the lack of capitals, intermittent shift key!

OP posts:
Joyn · 27/11/2011 18:30

Ladies, definitely concur with the teaching to their level. The problem I've always had is I don't actually know what my dcs level actually is. Have all yours been tested?

I'm particularly curious about Ds, he is quite literally top of his class, which is great, he's working on yr 5/6 things (in yr3,) but is that the best he can do? Is he being extended at the right pace etc? You end up putting a lot of faith in the teachers really. Ive been told before that teachers expect to differentiate for kids 2yr above & below the age of the group they have & that is kind of the level they are teaching him at/his nc scores show. I particularly find his reading score (3b end of last year,) odd, as he's been reading chapter books since he was 5, has a great vocabulary, great understanding & an adult reading age.

Im not so concerned about dd at the moment, shes yr 1 & in a yr 2 class, working in the middle group, which seems about right at the mo, but that doesn't mean there won't come a point when I won't be do sure. My understanding is she's the best reader & top of yr1 for maths (only yr 1 to be invited to inter school masterclass,) so things could be different next year, (when the yr2s move up & the other yr1s join her,) but my impression at the moment is she's not so far ahead of her peers as ds.

But how do you know, if their being extended enough? Do you have to get them tested? I'm not sure I want to get them tested, if there isn't actually anything wrong. But how do you know if they're doing as much as they should & for-filling their potential? This parenting lark is confusing!

simpson · 27/11/2011 21:04

Joyn - I know what you mean about having to put your faith in the teacher. I struggle with the same thing with DS.

He had a great yr1 last yr WRT his confidence levels etc but I do feel he was allowed to coast a bit too much for my liking as its such a mixed ability school.

Susan - Does your DD sit on a special cushion for carpet time???

DS astounded me today. Although his reading is v good its a bit of a battle to get him to read by himself, he wants to do it all with me aloud. But today he read 2 chapters of a secret 7 book by himself (this morning) and only told me just before he went to bed!! Grin

simpson · 27/11/2011 21:07

sorry, also forgot to say I have the same thing re summer babies as DS is 31st August and is in top group for everything and all the other children in the top group have already had their birthdays (ie already turned 7 in yr2)

iggly2 · 27/11/2011 23:08

Hi all,

Joyn: DS has never been tested, I would not want to (but do not feel the need-so it maybe different if circumstances were different IYSWIM).

He is similar age to a lot of other DC on this thread (ie just turned 6). I guess I know he is very happy (all talk of school involves playtime though so I just fill in the gaps and I am sure he would tell me if he finished work early/found it too easy). His (school) reading is very easy but he does read a lot harder at home (loves the more advanced Roald Dahl and Dick King Smith). I think in part though because the books he is on at school currently mean he can group read I do not mind as he likes the company (occ felt he was getting too singled out last year as had lots of 1-2-1 in different areas but do not know how else the school could do it). I also feel that it seems a bit silly if he can read near effortlessly that the 1-2-1 is not concentrated on maybe other children that need the help. I also think that to much individual attention does not encourage self motivation which is so important. I did wonder what others thought of the last few points though.

blackeyedsanta · 27/11/2011 23:09

simpson, i think she has it for carpet time. she sat on the long spikey side the first day she had it and complained it was too spikey poor love. she did not turn it over to sit on the slightly bobbly side, not so bright at times!

the august thing is confusing me as to how bright she is. if she was september reception, then it would be impressive and possibly 2 years ahead in some things, but if august y1 and she is doing y2 stuff, only one year ahead in school years, but what chronologically? then again they have got her books from the juniors, but is that more due to the school rigid system or that she is really that far ahead? the last book she read was white band and she only had difficulty with 1 word, olympic, but also neede to sound out a couple of surnames which she managed to get right the next time with a pause. it as an early chapter book, but we were able to read it in one sitting as the chapters were quite short, unlike say flat stanley when we read one chapter and have quite a few words to tackle. (slightly too hard I think) the hodge heg seems about right (lime) and there are a few words to sound out and learn the meaning of.

she was reading white band books when she was 4, at the end of reception. all done with me, not school. (red at school) I wrote down what she could do as she turned 5 to remind myself, which is just as well as I can not rermember now. Blush

she learnt an enormous amount of maths over the summer holiday. the best I could work out was that she was able to do the stuff in level 2(without having the extra explanation to hand, only the attainment targets.) (level 3 is big jump though and it is easy to see why that may take 2 years to do in the juniors!)

imagine how different from his peers he would be if in y1! he will get a better fit of work being the youngest in the year, even if it is not particulary good, it will be better than the top group of y1's work.

3b stuff.... here

in writing (i know you want to know about reading but using writing as an example) for the c level they have to complete 3 out of a group of 4 boxes plus another one out of 2 further boxes to get a low level 2c and more boxes highlighted for a b and nearly all plus some in the next level for an a. I assume there is something similar for reading but I have not found it yet. I wonder what happens if say they have nearly everything highlighted but are missing a statement here or there in the must have boxes? or maybe the teacher just did not have the evidence that he could do some of it.

joyn, that is a big gap. he is cerrtainly well ahead. I can see your dilema over whether to get him tested, but if he is getting higher work at the moment maybe it is not so crucial. a lot advice is given about expanding sideways around here. for school topics that would be going into more detail, but that may involve going higher up the curriculum anyway. it is such a tricky issue. it i s also not that easy just to get them to "learn and instrument" (in a flat with highly strung neighbours and on a limited budget?) and we spend far too long on physio and ot and just plain messing arround and being 5. she probably is not that in need of learning that things are difficult as physical things are difficult anyway.

sorry, i am waffling now and it is past my bed time and having sent everyone else off to sleep...

iggly2 · 27/11/2011 23:14

Will leaning an instrument be hard for your Dd blackeyedsusan? Sorry, I do not know much anythingabout hypermobility (I mean the physical side).

iggly2 · 27/11/2011 23:15

Opps "learning"

blackeyedsanta · 28/11/2011 07:11

I was thinking that iggly, ermm I don't think she is that gifted to require something so difficult, but as winging about some peoples default option on is my toddler bright threads is to learn an instrument. they are a lot of money to buy or hire and pay for lessons for.

I don't know much about hyper mobilityeither. Blush I only know about what she has to do and have not looked into any of the impplications of it

it as also late at night and Iwas whinging generally! and probably not making sense

iggly2 · 28/11/2011 09:02

I guess it is so easy for us to enter the standard phrase of "learn an instrument" without thinking about the physical difficulties it may entail.

Certainly instrumant and lessons are expensive. DS lessons are paid by all the family and the piano was from a junk shop secondhand.

onesandwichshort · 28/11/2011 09:04

The summer/autumn birthday thing is important, you're all right about that. DD would stand out much less if she were august-born. She's a November birthday; so not the oldest in her year but in the oldest group. In a way - and I never thought I'd say this - it would be easier the other way round. As someone said above, the older children can bring them on, at least for a few years while the gap is so pronounced.

Iggly - there are some interesting questions there about one to one and so on. DD's school is very concerned not to set her apart from the group, but she gets demoralised because other children get lots of praise (and awards etc) for things she can already do, while she doesn't and this is a problem for her right now. So some subtle differentiation would probably help her.

From my own experience (at a much older age) a small amount of one to one can encourage self-motivation. I had one-to-one maths tutoring twice a week and was expected to get on with my own work in class, which is much more like university/A Level learning and served me very well later on. Not sure that works in quite the same way at primary, though.

As for finding their level, I have no idea. Not sure that school do either. My definition would be doing work which enthused her, regardless of its assessed level.

We didn't test DD's reading level, but school (to their credit) sent her home with a book after a couple of weeks which was 'right', in the sense that she was having to sound out one word in ten or so. That was a Level 14 ORT, which equates to age 10 or so. The problem was, though, that while she could read all the words, the subject matter was way beyond her, so we are now back to easier but unchallenging early chapter readers.

Joyn, I wonder if your DS is at 3b because those levels include things like using an index, skim reading for factual content etc? Certainly I would be surprised if DD were more than 2, despite her reading age, because of all the other things they assess.

iggly2 · 28/11/2011 09:13

I think your Dd is maybe 10 month younger than my Ds (he turned 6 in October). She sounds like she's doning everything similar to my DS. I do not call my DS gifted either (if you look on another thread I do not like the term-esp not in a generic term as it seems to mean such different things to different people). I have found this thread useful as I do not know what is usual progression. I am a young mum and few of my peers have children (though more are nowSmile). Certainly did not even know about SATS pre joining MN Blush. Should I be looking at papers (he is year 2)?

iggly2 · 28/11/2011 09:20

Opps "sounds like she's doing...."! Oh and I was talking about BES Dd being 10 months younger. It sounds like OSSP Dd is even closer in age Smile is that right your Dd is 6?

iggly2 · 28/11/2011 10:13

Sorry OSSP actually have read the thread so I think is your 5.

Sorry for this one way monologue Blush.

blackeyedsanta · 28/11/2011 10:56

onesandwich, dd age 5 older yr
mrs s dd y1
bes dd age 5 younger y1
iggly ds age 6 older y1
simpson ds age 6 youngest y2 possible!
joyn ds age..... y3

adopt/mwita/iam just going to check... Blush

blackeyedsanta · 28/11/2011 11:04

adopt dd age 5 middle reception

blackeyedsanta · 28/11/2011 11:22

I hate the term gifted too. it is so unprecise and means one thing to one and one to another. also it has "connotations" of pretentiousness (sp, please correct)

i really don't know what to label dd. it is difficult to know at this stage without levels from school what she is doing. i need to go in and discuss writing. (use iep as an excuse to find out hat she is doing) and then I am going to have to approach the teacher about her maths at some point.

Joyn · 28/11/2011 11:41

Thanks Susan, it is hard to keep track of everyones dcs isnt it. Mine are;

Ds (8) yr3
dd1 (6) Yr1
dd2 (2) (just so she's not left out)

Not to harp on about the instrument thing, (one final suggestion & the last I'll say on the subject,) but do you read music yourself? Have you considered a recorder & a couple of books with the basics, (I only thought of this as i saw a set for sale for £2 in a charity shop the other day)? Instument lessons are expensive, but with something that simple once you've shown her the basics, she'd just be able to get on with it. It really has helped ds 'extend sideways' & he's now on the gift list for music too.

Joyn · 28/11/2011 11:43

Sandwich - loved your comment about finding their level

My definition would be doing work which enthused her, regardless of its assessed level.

so true!

Joyn · 28/11/2011 11:46

Iggly - never looked at any SATS papers for ds. Certainly wouldn't do any work with them for it, they'll do plenty of practise in school & you don't want the dcs to think it's a big deal. The results are used more for the stats on the school anyway, their NC levels in yr2 are based more on teacher assessment.

iggly2 · 28/11/2011 11:51

Cheers everyone!

DS is year 1 age but actually in year 2 Blush. Private school gets confusing (didnt realise for ages mumsnet that was the case).

iggly2 · 28/11/2011 11:53

Im not even sure they are SATS they just say they will give them all tests in year 2.

iggly2 · 28/11/2011 11:54

ASeriously occasionally wonder how they let me look after him (hasten to add he is the happiest little boy just a hapless mother).

iggly2 · 28/11/2011 11:56

Didn't even think to teach him alphabet.

iggly2 · 28/11/2011 12:00

No SATS practice here then (fine by me). He gets 20 mins each week day homework so very reluctant to add to that and weekend is family time (no work/music practice).

blackeyedsanta · 28/11/2011 13:14

onesandwich, dd age 5 older yR
mrs s dd y1
bes dd age 5 younger y1
iggly ds age 6 older y1 age, currently in year 2
simpson ds age 6 youngest y2 possible!
joyn dd age 6 older y1 and ds age 8 older y3

teaching the alphabet. ds insisted. he learnt most of the alphabet sounds before he could speak as he would bring dds books, point and say ahHHh. omits to mention the speech therapy Grin

sats practice. i will be doing sats practice, however, it will be the normal homework stuff I do with her just presented in a similar way and when the time comes sats will hopefully be just something normal and nothing special. also find that calling something a quiz works a treat, as does the offer of a sticker.

20 minutes a day homework is plenty though. (especially if that is on top of reading)

I didn't do her spelling homework with her last week other than ask her verbally how to spell the words. she is supposed to write them out once each day for 5 days. (probably not the best way to learn words but hey) we did not even write them once as she was ill last week and she still got them all right! i think we will let that be her easy task as writing and reading have got tougher. it also means that I do not have to panic about remembering to do the words. [lazy mother emotion]