Documentary BBC 9pm tonight about Cameron Thompson an amazing Mathematician

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Thought people might be inrterested.

There's certainly a huge case to be made for many many more programmes about Aspergers, to raise public awareness.

No idea if that was the thinking behind Cameron's parents' decision, but that would be one reason for going ahead with it.

We made the programme to show people that gifted children can drive themselves without having to be the product of pushy parents.

Society accepts children who are obcessed with football and computer games but the moment the interest is an academic subject there is a problem.

I found the program fascinating and actually very comforting. As the parent of a 5yo who is classed as dual exceptional - an aspie on 99th centile of BAS II tests, it was good to see how his loves of science, for example, could be turned into something that he could excel at, against all of the things he struggles with as he's growing up.

RodThompson,

Thanks for posting. I hope you, Cameron and the rest of your family are well. I think Cameron is lucky to have such amazing parents.

Out of interest, have you considered introducing Cameron to computer programming? If he did some mathematical modelling it might interest him as well as developing a well paid skill that might help him in future employment. Cameron might enjoy mathematical side of computer science. (Ie. developing noval sorting routines or database work.)

Although Cameron is a gifted mathematican, jobs in mathematics are very limited and not that well paid. In my experience they tend to be a lot of contracts and involved quite a bit of report writing.

Does Cameron have any career aspirations yet, beyond getting a maths degree? I realise he is still very young.

Reallytired....im a computer programmer myself and do a lot of database work!

Havent really had the opportunity to introduce him to much in the way of computer programming although he has done some computer based mathematical modelling.

The mistake a lot of parents make is to assume that just because a child is good at something that will be their choice of future career. For that reason although he is allowed to indulge his maths interests every other door academically is stiill open to allow him to choose a different path. Thats why i object to parents who put their child in university!

As you say he is very young so our current strategy is no different to any other child their age!

Btw thank you for your kind comments.

Having watched the programme, I'm just wondering why marks are deducted in maths when the student doesn't show the workings if the answer is still right. I can see that including the workings might enable an examiner to give marks when the student gets the final answer wrong, but why take them away if it's right? As you'll realise, I'm not a mathematician :)

Good luck to Cameron and his family, BTW. I enjoyed the programme, and I thought Cameron was a delightful, sensitive and thoughtful boy.

Found the programme very interesting and amazing to see how a genius like Cameron is trying to settle into a small village. I was glad to see how helpful the Cambridge prof was - he gave great advice. Would totally agree with him on the "mathematicians are all weird" comment - I found that there was a lot of emphasis on the Aspergers diagnosis in the programme from many sides, and I didn't find it helpful. A child of such intelligence would always find it hard to make friends in such an environment, and I think a lot of his problems were down to external factors - put him together with lots of maths geniuses in Cambridge and he might be fine. Cameron showed a lot of behaviours that I thought showed he had good social skills - he cared about his family and about having friends, he cared about what others thought of him and could see himself from their perspective, he was friendly and funny, even sarcastic at times, so I thought that the prof's comments about how Cameron was pretty normal as maths geniuses go was important. Making a big issue out of the aspergers definition can also erode his confidence which is not really helpful.

ON the careers aspect, I thought it was very important as well, I remember Cameron talking about how he might only get an easy job and then be bored. I am sure that will happen if he ever ends up in some employee type job and Rod, since you are here, I would raise him in a way to make sure he never plans on becoming an employee (other than a maths professor, maybe). Since you run a karate school, you are in the right position to teach him about entrepreneurship! There are so many things he can do with his skills. He can look at programming but in an interesting way - studying robotics, developing computer games or funny iphone apps or maths games - anything that fits with his interest. Esp since he already has the Maths A-Level, he has basically 6 years of spare time that he could use to develop things and try out lots of new ideas, there is really no reason he should ever look for an employee job!

Please watch these TED talks:
www.ted.com/talks/cameron_herold_let_s_raise_kids_to_be_entrepreneurs.html
(let's teach kids to be entrepreneurs)
www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html
schools kill creativity

He's got amazing talents and years of spare time ahead and no need for an income as he lives with his parents, there is no reason to waste the time with taking more exams for external validation or worrying about what job to look for. he should just release his inner genius on creative pursuits.

what a long post! i guess it shows the programme was very interesting and raised a lot of issues facing gifted kids in this country.

Sanam, what are you basing your comments on that a child with such ability will always find it hard to make friends? This is not the case with my son nor is the Cambridge prof's idea of all mathematicians are weird. I thought his comment perpetuated the view of maths being uncool and for freaks. I am blessed with a child as able, if not more so, than Cameron and he has no social problems and is very normal. His brother, on the other hand probably does have Aspie and finds life difficult - he is not as able.

There is an element of truth in what the cambridge prof said that a lot of mathematicans are weird. I had a lot of mathematican friends at uni and they were excentric in the nicest of ways.

I think the maths summer camps would be brilliant for Cameron. It would do him the world of good socially to meet other young teens who love maths. I have never been on a maths camp, but I did go on a physics camp at 16 years old. I went on a Women in to science and Engineering camp and I loved it. It was brilliant meeting other girls who shared my passion for physics. It was good for me socially as it was a bit like a taster for uni life.

Temple Grandin's are very good on how to prepare bright aspie for life. She is autistic herself and also gifted.

However I think RodThompson already knows what his son needs.

"I am blessed with a child as able, if not more so, than Cameron and he has no social problems and is very normal. His brother, on the other hand probably does have Aspie and finds life difficult - he is not as able."

Being aspie is nothing to do with ablity. Certainly one of the brightest men who ever lived, Issac Newton certainly showed definate autistic tendencies.

Colleger, are you going to suggest that your son is a greater mathematical genius than Issac Newton? Autism/ apsergers has nothing to do with intelligence.

It is really irrelevent to this thread whether Colleger's is more able than Cameron or not. No one really cares.

Please stop comparing your children to my son.

It is not a competition we are talking about childs lives and futures here. Is it really helpful to be coming onto this thread and saying your son is more gifted and doesnt have social issues? That feels like you are mocking those of us who do.

By the way i find it very difficult to beleive a gifted child doesnt stand outfrom their peers and be a target for bullying.

Secondly none of you know my son so basing an opinion on an edited tv programme that never showed any subject other than maths and even then didnt show him working.

To the two people whose sole contribution is to brag about their own kids at the expense of another child please go and brag elsewhere.

It is the people who turn this into a competition who are the ones who cause the rest of us problems with teachers.

weepiglet as you get into more advanced stuff maths stops being about "what is the answer to this question?" but turns into "show that x is the answer to this question". The latter requires a formal proof, which is easier to describe, for non-mathematicians as "showing your working". At university level, pure maths is entirely "showing your working". When you write a proof, you and others should be able to follow it. If there are huge leaps of logic (or gaps) it's not a very good proof.

RodThompson I sympathise with the problem of having to show working. I didn't get it until I was nearly 13. And then it was like a lightbulb switching on and I produced far too much working ever since - my proofs have now always been detailed to the point of irritation for the reader :) There's plenty of time for your son to get it if that's the path he chooses. Good luck to you.

Colleger, on your question:
Sanam, what are you basing your comments on that a child with such ability will always find it hard to make friends?
I know where you're coming from, as I am a psychologist (though not a practicing one) I know that the scientific evidence is that on average, gifted children have no more problems making friendships (rather the opposite) than average children, although as far as I know this is not true for the profoundly gifted, which seems to be Cameron's case. Of course there are some sociable geniuses, I think the maths prof in the documentary is a good example of it. And I agree that the media keeps on focusing on the quirky cases which tends to give the public a wrong idea.

I base my comment not purely on his gifts but his surroundings living in a small village. I think if he was in London going to Westminster School or a very selective grammar school he might be much less likely to have such problems. I just think if there is a huge gap in terms of ability and in terms of interests with the other children around him, it is going to happen. From what I gather from longitudinal studies of the gifted, very often gifted children in environments surrounded by wealthy and educated people generally have less problems than gifted children in less academic environments where there is a much bigger gap between them and their surroundings. That's really all (and before others attack me, I can provide references for those studies).

I have not criticised Cameron once or come on here to boast so there is no need to get defensive. I have merely questioned comments about mathematicians being weird, of which I have disputed, or them finding it difficult to form friendships.

Sanam, on paper I do have a profoundly gifted child with an estimated IQ in the 200's and he is at a non-selective private school with lots of friends. He is going onto a selective senior school and although he is not going to Westminster (was offered early entry) it would have been my preferred option. I'd be surprised if he didn't end up doing maths but I know he'd be miserable if he was in a class where they were all weird. Luckily I know two maths grads from Cambridge who are popular and successful and have always been so.

Any issue I have had on this subject is the portrayal of gifted children as not being normal. This has been from comments made on the programme. RodThompson, I think you need to re-read the threads and try not to be so defensive as no criticism has been directed towards you or your family. You should also be glad that there are similar boys with similar abilities out there as they could be potential friends for your son. It's not pleasant to assume the parents of gifted boys are posting to boast. Remember there will be plenty people who think putting a gifted child on TV is boasting. It's not a competition and it's important to offer support.

An IQ in the 200s?

Yes, why do you ask? He was tested when he was six but was given an IQ test for an 11 year old and he hit the ceiling mark of 170 so the Ed Psych aid his IQ was definitely a minimum of 190 but probably more closer to 220 although she couldn't measure it fully. He did another test, for school entrance and it confirmed a score above 200 as the paper could not mark above that.

As I've said before, once an IQ gets above 170 there really is very little difference between 170 and 220 in my opinion, and it certainly doesn't make one happy or successful on life, nor does it mean one is doomed to a life of solitude and depression.

I'd never heard of it, but I did google and got lots of info from that. I'm just kinda .

Just didn't know it was possible!

It means nothing in our case. He's lovely but lazy and bored and would rather play on the Wii like most boys! He's decided he'll study maths at uni because he won't need to put any work in. My other son who is more average has to work at academics and he'll probably be more successful than his brother because things don't come easy to him. I don't see the eldest as gifted, he just seems like a normal kid who is good at maths. It doesn't define him and we never discuss it. Often the things we post online are the things we would never say in the real world. It's not meant to come across as boasting, but just relaying facts.

I watched this and I do think it was very enlightening wrt autism/aspergers it's one thing to read about the social awkwardness, another to actually see it in action. The way Cameron was reeling off his achievements in front of the football playing boys was obviously staged though and I think a little bit cruel , it made me cringe for the poor boy.

I did love his friend too, his little rant against conformity and his ak-47 comment were spot on. I think the Cambridge professors advice was brilliant, it's not the certificates you can rack up that confer genius status on you, but the thinking, and understanding.

I'm sure I could get a first in Maths if I studied day and night, I am good at it, however I don't fully understand it in the way that people thought of as geniuses do. You need to really understaend all of the relationships and be able to think outside of the box to be truly great.

I totally agree with Sanam in that the social/educational environment can help.

Even in one cohort of children there can be such huge differences - in my son's class there is a child very much like Cameron but he is lucky as he is in a cohort with some very bright boys, so he doesn't stand out as much.

They are all very interested in education and have their own strengths, so they are still all learning from each other, despite one being stronger at one subject than the others. And this is a state school by the way!