secondary school Y7 too easy-what to say at parent teacher 10 min session?

[Habanera]

DD1 will be with us so I will have to be very positive as she hates the school and we can't move now. She continually says to me she isn't learning anything, the children are noisy mean and disruptive (and last week they are "all so stupid"-she is geting more frustrated and judgmental), some teachers sarcastic and nasty, and I now realise will be in a (very) mixed ability class except for maths and foreign Langs for all of the rest of this year and maybe next-I didn't ask the right questions about setting despite agonising over the choice of school. I assumed that at secondary she would get more challenge at least in the core topics, and unfortunately saying so was how I kept her reasonably accepting of the slow pace at primary school-but she is growing up and had enough of coasting and daydreaming, and others' bad behaviour.

How can I ensure she gets some challenge to her very good ability in English and Science at secondary? She is completely turned off most of the subjects, and she doesn't want to do "stupid clubs". Should I ask DH to take some time off work (horrors!!). He is less emotional about it all and better at making arguments.

Heck, tricky one, poor child. Can't believe they don't set for english or science , the setting issue was top of our list of questions on the secondary open day trawl recently. Could it be that they are mixed ability up until half-term whilst the school susses the kids out and set after that? That certainly seems to be the norm around here. Hope someone comes along with some advice soon.

Nope they only set for maths and foreign languages and that is only now after half-term-she's had a terrible first impression and all the other mums with older DCs keep saying it will get better in year 9. How can I tell her that it will get better in Y9, she's already been fobbed off with that for the past 2 years.

I'm foreign so I didn't understand the system or that the schools aren't all the same.

One said her son had to have a boy next to him with severe Tourette's making a really loud constant noise throughout the first two years. But now her DS is really happy, now they are set and the poor affected child gets taken away for one-on-one.

(he had to wait 2 years for that! What hope for my DD who is only bored and being picked on for being too clever?)

Well I blame myself totally- we can't afford to move house again never mind private school fees, DH is really angry with me for choosing the wrong school and won't hear of any plans involving changing schools.

Is it hopeless, then? They aren't going to change their policies for us are they.

just ask how the work is differentiated for ability in the subjects that aren't set.

if you are brave enough, you can ask how the staff ensure that low level disruption is minimised in mixed ability settings.

but probably hopeless, yes. for two years. i don't think much has changed since i was at school. in unset classes there was v little learning. it was mostly an exercise in crowd control v who could make the teacher cry and flee first.

but onwards and upwards, you can always try.

Starting high school is a tricky time. There's many more things to factor in. It can be a real eye opener for bright kids. When ds started with his equally high achieving friend from primary, they were astounded to find themselves in classes with some equally bright children from other schools. It battered their confidence as they were used to being known as the bright ones and were suddenly flung into having prove themselves. Ds's friend got quite depressed as in her own words "In primary school I was special, here I'm ordinary".

I agree with madwoman though, ask about differentiation and what strategies they have to for disruptive pupils. Also talk to the teacher about her being picked on and tell them how it's affecting her enjoyment of school. This is exactly the sort of thing these meeting are for in year 7.

agree with advice from mivvi and madwoman. Also consider asking to make another longer appointment to further discuss your issues. YOu may well not get through all your concerns in the 10 min slot.

Poor you...this must be very worrying. Agree with previous posts. But without wanted to cause you and your DH to fall out maybe you should look at what other schools around you offer. Could you go and visit some of them without your DD initially and see if you felt it was worth the upheaval. Are there some other possibilities without going private?

HI thanks for advice, I decided to say I would come back with DH for a longer more specific meeting if I think we need it. I guess they would have done some assessment on her since starting that they want to tell me? that will take most of the time, apart from me saying the good/bad/good praise sandwich. and the lingo for differentiation and disruption.

She just got into the top sets for French and Maths- maths was never her strong subject but I told her in primary that would have to be very good too if she wanted to pursue her biology interests later on, gave some extra help, so I'm pleased that has worked out for her and she saw some results from having to work at something. Then she came home disappointed as the set 1 maths lesson was again so very simple, just loads of very simple obvious rectangular areas to work out, nothing at all to deduce or work out. (I remember at Easter she had no idea how to do that!). She says she is doing work from year 4 and 5. She especially respects the English teacher's skill at keeping everyone productively busy (must be a saint/miracle worker), but again came home disappaointed as they are doing the same book she just did for weeks at the the end of Y6 in guided reading, again. She loathes repetition.

I'm wondering if she has suddenly come into her own with her intellect and left some peers behind, also decided well if they want to put someone down they can get lost, she's not playing that game but will get on with some work instead. Possibly we hadn't noticed the change because of our DD2 who is suddenly thriving at school and getting all sorts of notice and enjoyment. We were mainly thinking of D1's social life since that seems to be all that matters in Year 7, and she chose the school on that basis seemingly, but she expects more from secondary than more primary.

I often feel at sea with DD1, my DD2 is blatantly G&T but DD1 hates show offs (like DD2! ) and is more into getting along with everyone, how society works, whether teachers like her, etc. so even I am never sure whether she is G&T, bright or even a bit dull seeming to others, with her serial obsessive interests that no one else shares.

We have looked at other schools this year, as I am starting to suss for DD2, not much else in the way of state-can't get into the church school due to wrong religions, anyway she's now a out-and-out atheist-and it's pretty hopeless to get into the girls school, that she had ruled out before but now likes the idea of. The catchment has shrunk to a postage stamp. The other comp seems identical, and would be a much longer journey. Wish we had started looking earlier, year 4 isn't too early, chaps! especially for confused aliens.

oops this is too long

So they are streaming for other subjects :o

First of all, take some of what she says with a pinch of salt. My DD has just started Yr7 and it's all very strange and new and some of the stories she comes back with are much more dramatic than the truth :o

Also, I think you have a job to do to keep up her enthusiasm - you sound very negative about it, like you've written the school off after one half term (which probably isn't all that indicitive with all the settling in)

Why are the clubs "stupid". I simply don't countenance any talk like that and speak enthusiatically and encouragingly about things I think DD should at least give a try.

She will be picking up signals from you and if you are all "it's hopeless", then she'll think that too. Try being a bit more positive

And good luck :)

I would be a bit cross with her for calling all the clubs stupid because many of the clubs at school are there for the gifted pupils who want to stretch themselves in the sciences, maths and other subjects. teachers are willing to give up there lunchtimes or after school to teach extra lessons. I would encourage her to find out more about what goes on around the school, it took both my dd's the first year at least to totally suss out everything on offer.

? I meant in the OP that they were setting for maths and foreign langs. only, but I am worried about English and Science, etc. as well-it's really boring sitting there all day, doing stuff you already know. I do feel a bit better now she surprised me by getting into maths top set, she used to hate maths and that will keep her occupied!

Clubs are fine for a lunch break to liven up a day in my opinion too, and I've been encouraging her to join everything for weeks now, like she did in her previous schools, but she was put off by the treatment of the kids who went, getting detention for getting lost or not being let out in time by the previous teacher. She's really angry at the way children are treated, and won't hear that the teachers might be having a bad day or any other excuse I can think of. She's not going to risk a detention, no way, she says. I even told her I would take her out for a meal if she got one and it wasn't due to a deliberate act on her part, but nope.

It's true, I have been concerned about her settling, her experiences, and what to do to make it better, and that is obvious to her from my questions each day when she gets home, and my asking the other mums and past pupils I meet or my answering their kind queries. Most people seem to like the place, or if their DC didn't, they say wait 2-3 years (that's a big chunk of her life and mine). One was very surprised at the harsh treatment meted out to the children, which has changed very recently. I want to make the most of my little bit of the 10 minutes consultation-just because some children have a bad time, doesn't make it right. This is my DD's only year 7, she was looking forward to it very much, and it is a nightmare from her point of view-no one else is listening to her concerns without dismissing them, but me.

I think you need to do three things:

Book a separate appointment to see her head of year and maybe the head of English or maths. Get them to explain to you how they are working and gently bring up your concerns. Listen carefully for their responses to gauge how harsh the school's attitude seems.

But you also need to sit down and explain to your dd what higher studies are actually like:

*That starting from the foundations and making sure they are covered is a normal part of any move to a higher level. It's like ballet dancers: when they come on stage to do those incredibly complicated moves they will have spent the morning doing the kind of basic warm-up exercises that are also done by 4yos in pink tutus: anyone who thinks they are too clever to re-visit the basics is not going to make it to the top.

*That doing the same book as she has done before does not mean she is not meant to be learning anything new: it means she is expected to learn on a deeper level, put more thought into it, engage with it more.

*That writing something off as "stupid clubs" is not the mentality that is going to help her thrive in her studies. If there is a concern with how to get to a club etc she needs to approach her tutor for a solution- but she is now getting to an age where she is expected to take responsibility for this. She does sound a little immature.

*That there should be more extended projects and essay writing coming along shortly and in these areas it is entirely up to her how ambitious she is.

And finally, I would listen to your dd very carefully to find out if there might be some other underlying problem. It doesn't on the face of it seem as if the main problem is that she is above the level taught at the school: if there was even some doubt about her getting into the top set for maths she doesn't seem to be miles ahead of everybody else. Could it be that some of her problems are on a more social, personal level? Could she be being bullied?

def agree with cory.

i wouldn't be worrying that she's too clever for this school/ class/ year group tbh.

and i think i might back off a little from quizzing her every day about how she is finding it - is it possible that you are feeding her negativity by enabling it?

you can still discuss differentiation etc and any low level interference, but
tbh it's a rare school that doesn't suffer in this way these days (unless you are paying a fortune to attend it.) she needs to understand that she is in the driving seat as far as output goes, not you, and not the teachers, and so she'd better get driving. yr 7 is a big mindset change for students (and parents!), and lots of them don't 'get it' for a year or two. she can (and is expected to) discuss issues with her form or homeroom teacher. of course, you are welcome to get involved if there is a problem, but i think she's just experiencing the culture shock of moving from big fish to teeny tiny little minnow in a much bigger and busier pond. which is ok, and completely normal.

the clubs thing is easily fixed - and i bet she's embellishing it. the kids caught wandering the halls having been let out early may well have theoretically been on their way to clubs, but i can also bet there was a fair amount of meandering and chattering and noise, and not exactly any impetus to get to where they were supposed to be going (not sure why they need to be let out early wither, but the ones who were told they couldn't go, probably didn;t mention it at the beginning of the class, but suddenly dropped it on the teacher at ten to twelve 'miss, i;ve gotta go now'. .

and why on earth would you be seeking to undermine the teachers further with the whole 'having a bad day' nonsense? you weren't there, you don't know if it was justified, and you can't possibly make any judgement, and nor should you. it's no wonder she's negative about school if you are underming the staff in this way without the full story.

11yo girls can be reasonably biased in their intepretations of events.

Thanks for your thoughts, cory and madwoman, they cleared my head a bit and were quite helpful on the day. It was all about her superb outstanding behaviour as assessed by her and the teachers, nothing about academic stuff and TBH she doesn't think she's done any testing much-I can't complain since she's indeed unhappy with some other things too. She was very articulate in the meeting about wanting to write her own paragraphs not just fill in missing words on worksheets, and to do projects lasting hours not minutes. She did almost all the talking, and I just had my 2 p worth at the end about how the disciplinary system was inhibiting her from enjoying her time at school and participating as much as she might in the class, or taking risks, which is what SHE personally needs to start doing more not less, and that I am not going to blame her for the odd infringement that was inadvertent on her part-tutor agreed with that. DD still feels her ultimate goal is to never get any consequence marks, at all, through her whole school career, at any cost. sigh

She was given some goals and is delighted to be given more challenging work. She told the form tutor school was "ok", waving her hand in that So-So gesture-for her in front of a teacher, this is the equivalent of shouting "it's Sh*T."! I THINK the form tutor could pick up on that, she did acknowledge that dd has had some problems.

DD is still (privately) very unhappy with the school itself, but I've told her that we can't afford private, and moving to another state will take so long that Y7/8 will probably be over, and they all are similar anyway and further away so that means getting up even earlier. I need to work even so, so HE is not an option-as it is I am spending every evening mainly with her chatting (she still likes to chat with me, yay), helping with her music, lesson chauffeuring etc., helping with other enjoyable acitivies and keeping in touch with old pals who she can REALLY talk to (the school mates or their mums are not to know she hates it). I am exhausted and ignoring other things that need me too.

She has thrown herself into the homework in a big way, really making it good and at least Dh and I are now able to give tips on areas (presentation, structure of essays, do a bit more not just the minimum in 4 minutes flat) that primary seems to have missed (the primary was parent-hostile with little homework so we never knew what she was doing).

I have to laugh about "undermining the teachers", having been told off the same day by DD1 with a bitter "why do parents always take the teacher's side?!" when telling DD2 her instrument teacher just wants her to play better and isn't picking on her because she is rubbish. I know my DD1 and reminding her that adults even teachers are possibly humanoid too works IME to get her to step back and see them in a better light. She is AFRAID of them and of standing out and getting picked on by classmates, so not talking back etc, or even saying anything at all. Believe me I would never use this approach with DD2. Her ego is huge at school ATM.

I'm glad that DD is going to be getting some more challenging work. However I think the best thing you can help your daughter with is in developing a better attitude towards her teachers rather than simply viewing her getting tougher work as the solution to her issues.
Firstly you say that your daughter seems to have prioritised avoiding risks in her education. My own DD is like this; in consquence teachers rarely, if ever, see her true ability as she works very hard at avoiding anything where there is a risk of failure (even with work I know she has mastered). Therefore her teachers do not give her work which is challenging because they do not know what she is capable of. I recommend to you a book called Mindset by Carol Dweck which has a lot of useful guidance on this issue with gifted children. Fear of risk taking in her education has the potential to really limit your DDs education as she progresses in secondary school and I would really urge you to find ways to help her become a risk taker. Your daughter also (like mine) seems very bound up in the importance of following rules and the perception of unfairness from teachers. As a teacher I find it very, very unlikely that children are given detention for genuinely being lost. Sorry, but my day is busy enough without making work for myself victimising innocent kids. Therefore I think your DDs perception of the situation is very wrong and I would suggest that you try to figure out why she is developing such a negative view of her school and teachers (and how much of it she may have been picking up from you). You need to encourage your DD to view her teachers as partners in her education, not as people who need to be fought, who she should be afraid of or who are deliberately being unfair.
The best thing you can do is keep the channels of communication open with the school. None of us like being 'that parent' but I can honestly say that, as a teacher, I want parents to speak with me about issues, whether they relate to an educational problem or a social problem. If your DD is unhappy at school I very much doubt the root cause is work. In all my years teaching I have never seen a child who is unhappy at school only because of work (unless they were really, really struggling academically). When your DDs form tutor acknowledged there were problems did she mean academic or social? Has DD made friends at her new school as being socially isolated can be just as damaging as being bullied.
Finally look at ways you can encourage your DDs learning outside of school. As others have wisely suggested, the simple fact she is covering material she already knows (eg a book read in a previous year, maths problems etc.) does not mean she is not learning new things as she will be asked to do things in more depth etc. than before. Also for the Maths I would be looking to ask what they can do to broaden her curriculum, rather than simply advancing her through it more quickly. Outside of the school I would look to the DaVinci group and all it can offer her for online learning: www2.warwick.ac.uk/study/iggy/iggyjuniors/iguana/davincigroup/
Schools will do the best they can, but with the best will in the world it is a poor best for gifted children and will continue to be so with the education system we have created. Good luck to you and your kids. I hope they find the challenge they need and also that you can all develop a positive relationship with your school and her teachers.