To want to get my child tested by an educational psychologist....

[royaljelly]

Sorry quite long as a bit of backgroung is needed.

My daughter turned 2 at the end of June 2011 and she is really intelligent (may be biased).

The main factors are:

Can count to 20 in English

Can count to 8 in Spanish, (we do not speak spanish and think she has picked this up from Dora),

She recognises if you ask her to count in Spanish or English.

Often counts backwards from 10 correctly, even whilst playing

Will remember statements, such as, 'We will build a den after dinner'. As soon as dinner is done we have to build a den.

Recognises colours such as pink, purple, brown, as well as primary ones and will get the correct crayon even if the wrapping is a different colour.

Recognises shapes and can draw them if asked.

Spots mumbers in the street and calls them out.

Has circled the toys in the Argos catalogue for Xmas.... we thought she was scribbling but she has a definate view on what she wants, (quite a tomboy and has missed out the entire girly range except for a kitchen).

As parents we thought she was rather bright, but thought our own biased views made this the case. This has now been picked up by her childminder and even people at the bus-stop who think she is older than she actually is.

I have been on the Mensa website and they have said that for children under 10, their tests be carried out by an educational psychologist.

They seem to mainly carry out tests on ADHD or troubled kids and partner now thinks that if I go ahead and organise this it may label her.

I think that if we get advice on encouraging and building her intelligence then this will benefit her in the future.

I should add that we do not sit her down and command her to draw shapes or count, but do this as part of family fun time ie: sat on one parents knee as we play Trivial Pursuit with her much older brothers, (she gets to move the counter).

Do I go ahead with the tests or not. I am afraid of becoming complacent with her intelligence and not allowing her to have the best opportunies in the future.

Oh God! University admissions won't care what age she was potty trained, what grade ballet / swimming / judo / whatever she's currently at, or any of that stuff you mentioned either. Sounds like she's relatively bright, but she may or may not continue at the same rate as she gets older. Let's just hope she doesn't peak at three, eh?

Don't bother with Mensa - it's a nightmare. My parents met through Mensa and a lot of their friends were in it. Yes maybe they passed an IQ test but you could not meet a more dysfunctional and self-obsessed bunch of people. I was always told as a child that intelligence was the be-all and end-all and my dad would even say "I am more intelligent than any of the other parents of all the children in your school" what a twat.

Now I have a son who is really struggling at school, and would flunk any IQ test, but is wonderful in so many ways, I can finally see that IQ-style intelligence really is not the main event. Let you DD be who she is and do what she enjoys - and encourage her with other things too, whether that's feeding the ducks or making friends or whatever.

Yes, as hanaka said, please just enjoy her. my DD was like this and I was so proud and.amug and dreamed of her future, then had a mighty fall back down to earth as she is actually severely autistic. I'm not saying your DD is, but you don't know how she will be later and you are setting yourself up for disappointment I'd she is just early but average.

And it's nice to stealth boast once in a while, DS1 is currently on reading rescue!!

She sounds great OP, wish my kids could do half that stuff at age 4. But I do not have the slightest idea why you think knowing her IQ will give her any advantage in life.

I had my IQ tested at age 7, I went over the top of the test (160). They couldn't say for sure what my IQ was beyond that.

I come from the USA, a country where they like their IQ tests, and believe in them.

You're sorta right, OP, I got into a specialist mentally gifted minors programme (primary) because of the IQ score. At a school where I was bullied & miserable. I really wish my parents hadn't thought they had to do something special for me.

And never once, in the last 35 years, has anyone else asked about my IQ. Not at high school, not when I applied to Stanford & Yale (didn't get in), not when I applied for jobs, not when I applied for research grants or submitted papers or went to speak at international conferences. Not when I got my PhD, never.

And now I'm about to apply for a job as dinner lady bank staff , bfd the whole IQ thing.

There's nothing stealth about that boasting, Posies! :-)

I am not sure what you would really want from a test.

Our 2.4 year old is streets ahead of his peers verbally, though seems not that interested in counting other than as a fun "nursery rhyme". But, so what? I studied physics at Cambridge and was always top of my school, so would expect him to be above average.

On the other hand, it is up to him what he makes of himself. He is provided with a reasonable amount of toys and has lots of interaction with his parents. Basically, if he brings something up, I chat to him about it or show him how it works. I think this is far better than some kind of structured programme as it allows him to use his imagination and work things out for himself. I think that it is easy to hothouse a child into knowing lots but creative thinking is another matter altogether and I suspect that all the hothousing and not allowing a child to mooch around with his favourite book or in front of the TV (limited time) actively discourages imaginative thought. So, I think you get a short term gain but what will they be like 20 years from now?

Finally, I think it is really important for children to not believe they are somehow special (except to their families). The current culture of entitlement and greed springs from this kind of parental thinking.

Old and jaded EP here and, as well as agreeing with ELL, I would like to add that lots of EPs will say no to assessing children just for the sake of it for all the reasons given above. It's a bit like turning up at the GP and saying 'my child seems exceptionally healthy. Please put them through a battery of tests just to be sure.'

If a child is presented to an EP because there's a problem and their intellect is a part of that, testing may be indicated.

Tests at 2 assess acquisition of knowledge. Real life success is about how well children and adults use that knowledge to interact with the world. Giving your daughter a rich variety of experiences (including good nutrition, exercise, unstructured exploration, etc.) will give her a good foundation for thinking.

Sorry for my terrible typing there, phone and sore shoulder

I hear that Oxbridge are redesigning their application forms. Section 1 requires detailed information regarding Apgar scores
Please, please tell us what the midwife said [hwink]

At 2 I would definitely just let her be a child. Genius kids often end up screwed up with few friends and social skills as not used to mixing with folk their age and of all abilities.
I think being bright and able to relate to people/ see the bigger picture/ organise people leads to better jobs than being bright in a narrow field that you have been hot housed in anyway.

I am about passing comment about ADHD and Autism.
Yes 2 year old DO show signs of autism

and OP "They seem to mainly carry out tests on ADHD or troubled kids and partner now thinks that if I go ahead and organise this it may label her" !! do you think people just get these labels on a one off assessment and are just given sticky labels with asd on it!

As for your OP, my DD1 could do all of that and more at 2years old and will say I do know her IQ and it is massive BUT she has found her own speed in her school and is happy knowing what she is good at. We dont push her, shes happy. Oh and has autism
DD2 cant do half those things and she has autism too, shes 4 years old.

All kids are different, learn at different rates and most level out about age 6-9years.

YANBU to consider it, you are tuned into your child. I considered it for mine, after having it suggested to us. What you need to do is consider what use the information would have and what you would do with it. We decided not to as wouldnt make any difference to how we treated her and the activities we did with her. We would still do things suitable to her and be proud in her successes. My advice would be to relish in the fun you can have with a child who is articulate, read up on info from the NAGC ready in case you need it when they are a bit older. Oh and dont take too much notice of those that say they are nothing special and will grow out of it, some do, but some dont and you never know.

You are being a bit daft,OP. And you come across as being desperate for your child to be recognised as something a bit special by others.

Some of your list made me go as being things that I would expect most 2 year-olds to be doing to a greater or lesser extent. Some things probably indicate that she is bright, but there isn't anything that makes me think 'good grief, that is amazing'.

DS is a couple of weeks younger than your DD. He can do some of the things on your list and variations of the others. He also has developed over the last couple of months a vocabulary that startles me sometimes - correct use of quite complicated, abstract words and very accurate grammar. His nursery say he is very bright. His grandmother (who raised my very, very bright DP) thinks he is unusually bright. I have no idea if they are right or not. I was considered a gifted child and there are things that I was doing at 2 that he isn't doing so he could be bright, very bright or average for all I know.

But I am content to wait and see. At this age I think that any pushing or direction or assessment could not be dressed up as anything other than me wanting the reflected praise of raising a bright child. It wouldn't be for him. He is two and shouldn't be hassled to develop in a particular way because I think it is a good idea. If he does turn out to be particularly bright then we will take advice at school age from those better placed to identify any specific needs/opportunities and we will help to the best of our ability. Other than tha, he can get on with being two.

OP - she sounds lovely and bright, but not at all unusual. If you want to get her assessed for your own interest then no harm in that, she'll just have a fun day out playing with the nice ed psych. But please don't do it because you're expecting it to make the blindest bit of difference to any path your DD takes in the very distant future.

IQ changes over time (and is a debatable measure of general intelligence anyway - ie not social or emotional intelligence, which are just as important in coping with the world), so any assessment now doesn't mean anything for the future, and won't change anything you want to 'do' with your DD right now. So it is really for your own interest/pride/whatever only.

FWIW - my story - I was reading fluently by 2.5, self taught, have always sailed through exams, was a member of Mensa (only at age 16 so I could put it on my UCAS form), 1st from Cambridge, Chartered professional twice over, blah di blah di blah, all very enviable on paper. All this without pushy parents, just interested ones (eg would buy me workbooks IF I was interested etc). It hasn't made the slightest difference to the fundamental quality of my life, and as a parent of two young bright children I agree with all the comments above that being 'pushy' and focusing on achievement can do more harm than good - you can end up feeling like you're never good enough and you'll never achieve what you should achieve, which takes some of the joy out of life.

Be engaged, yes, supportive, encouraging, follow their interest, develop their confidence (and suppress some of their precociousness!), share a joke and a tickle, but save the worrying about formal assessments and educational paths for much later on, and only if needed. Enjoy this moment in time with them, its very special .

"All kids are different, learn at different rates and most level out about age 6-9years."

Seems a v socialist concept of the human intellect. Some people are just brighter than others. Life is not fair.

I have, and always will be, as subtle as a brick!!

Is there really any merit in having your daughter tested and having a label put on it. There are lots of exceptional children around. My dd is exceptionally bright in lots of ways. Reading, writing, fab at maths and she's 4 just started in reception. However we are encouraging her to widen her ability and expanding her learning sideways. She can't ride a bike yet and that is keeping her quite determined at the moment after school and during half term. SHe has some lessons with y1 or y2 to fit her development. But the majority of it she has with her peer group in reception as thats where she is socially. We are quite concious not to push her too much and really follow her lead as socially she really needs to fit in. SHe may be performing at a 7 / 8 year olds level academically but socially she really isn't.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is let your dd be 2 as lots of others have said. If she's counting backwards from 100 in swahili one minute the next she'll be cutting her hair or drawing on a wall. Its all part of her growing up and letting her develop along with other 2 year olds / young children will be vital for her. Labelling her and making her different really won't be.

It's really hard to say this without being impolite, but OP, I don't even think she sounds that bright, sorry. Average maybe? I genuinely thought most 2 year olds would have a similar knowledge and certainly know all their colours etc.
I don't even get what you mean about the remembering statements such as building a den after dinner. This surely just means she understands what you are saying. If she didn't, she might be cognitively impaired? In other words, it's normal.
I'm not being mean, I just don't see what's to get excited about. Plus what everybody else said about the IQ test.

larrygrylls, I didnt say ALL children, but to find a truely gifted child is rare, and IQ changes, because they may peak before their peers, it doesnt mean they always will be better.
I dont care if some people are brighter than other, and tbh I dont see it as unfair. I see it as great, be very boring if we were all on same level!

No, we think that consulting an educational psychologist is not a rational or proportional approach to exploring what you can do to encourage your daughter because it will have no effect whatsoever and you'd give her more benefit by spending your money on something else.

As you appear to be utterly convinced that paying for your daughter to be tested by an ed psych is going to give her some kind of 'leg up' I'm not entirely sure why you posted in AIBU to ask whether it was a good idea. If you have the money to spare, though, go right ahead. Keeping the money in circulation will at least help to boost our flagging economy in a way that setting fire to it in your back garden wouldn't, although the two will have approximately the same effect on your daughter's future life and prospects.

My DD could do those things at 2, has spectacular exam grades and is at university.
But it could have gone either way at various stages in her school life. A lot of water passes under the bridge in 13 years of schooling.

Continue to encourage and stimulate her but don't get her tested. Save your effort for when/if she's bored witless in primary school - and it won't help her if you go into school raving that she's a member of Mensa. Let her SATs results speak for themselves.

At some point you might have to fight for her to be offered school work commensurate with her ability - but not yet. Just enjoy her as she is.

What is most important is that she's happy and secure in her own skin and is able to make friends with her peers. Labelling her or making her seem superior won't help her do that - or help you in relationships with parents of potential friends.

pebbledasher Can I pick your brain?

I do like "a bit like turning up at the GP and saying 'my child seems exceptionally healthy. Please put them through a battery of tests just to be sure.' "

Herd - thank you, feeling rubbish and coldy today and you've just made me snort my tea out of my nose!