To tell or not to tell the school....

[dnmama]

Our ds had lots of negative comments from school last year ("never shuts up", "talks at lenght about things that interest him", "can do the work but does not finish his worksheet" "doesn't seem to listen but then knows what is going on" etc). A friend suspected all this was down to him being quite intelligent so we had him tested and indeed, his IQ is 150 - "highly gifted".
We are at loss as to what to do with this. His achievement at school is not great. He is in the bottom half of his class (YR 2). Shall we tell his teacher - not to get special treatment, but for her to understand him better? Or shall we not say anything and continue to give him lots of lerning opportunities at home? Are there people out there who have gifted children and have not said anything to the school about it?
Thank you.

hi dnmama i had these comments from my dd's first primary school too. unfortunately for me i had no evidence that she was g n t at the time but the things she was doing at home were quite bizarre for a 7 yo. she was seen as an average child who wouldnt do what she didnt think she had to. she basically attended school without putting much effort in.

i would go in and ask to speak to the teacher to see what advice they could give you and what would they suggest to help your ds. go in softly softly so to speak.

he may be dumbing himself down to fit in with his friends this too was a problem we had. hiding her school books at 4 as some of her older friends couldnt read at all if he is doing this then the teachers may feel he is in the correct sets.

i sought help from the nagc and they advised me how to go on. they were fab!

he needs stimulating and he is entitled to progress. if you dont speak up for him he may 'switch off'.

although i had a terrible time a friend of mine told the school (a different school) about their ds and he is flying through the curriculum at an incredible rate. they are very supportive.

You might want to look at the NAGC website for some ideas on what to do next.

Just realised that blossom also recommends NAGC.

i agree you need to speak up for him and show the teacher the report.
on occasions in my professional life i have carried out such tests and in a small number of cases this has been the result. i do remember one teacher's attitude to the young person in question totally changed (he had some behaviour problems in school) when she found out he was so bright.
150 is a very high iq score and the school should be able to make provision to help draw the best from him.
it won't be special treatment, but it will be meeting his needs a little better.

when i approached dds school i may not have done it as eloquently as i should have done as she was a complete horror at home from the age of 4 - 8 i only sought the advice AFTER things had deteriorated significantly hoping things would improve. your doing the right thing getting the advice beforehand. so needless to say i couldnt persuade them to look at my dd differently but waited for an extra 18mo. i finally had to take her out of that school. she did a complete turnaround and was deemed an exceptionally bright little girl

Yes talk to the school. If he had a low iq you wouldn't be asking at all, having high iq is still an extra need imo

Thank you so much for all your comments everyone. It really helps. I suppose I am worried about the following:

1. they will laugh at the suggestion as he isn't achieving
2. they will put him in a higher set and he won't be able, or won't want to, do the work and will be even unhappier.

3.He will be told by the teacher about this high IQ. At the moment, we are inclined not to tell him as our main aim is to raise a well rounded, happy individual...we don't want him to think he is in any way better than his sibilings and are scared of what such a lable does to a child.

1. what will they do with him?!

As you can probably tell from my confused comments, we are finding it very difficult. Thank you for the support.

You won't be laughed at, and movement between sets is unlikely at this point.

The teacher will teach him according to what he is showing her he can do. If he is not completing the work he will (quite rightly) not be moved ahead. IQ is potential not performance - and she has to work on the basis of his performance.

The key now is to unlock his motivation - perhaps in activities you do with him outside school anyhow you can turn him on to a more advanced level of maths. Then you have two possibilities - you persuade him to "play the game" and actually do his school work (as that is the route to more advanced work in school) and also you can get actual examples of his higher level of performance, as this will be more persuasive to a teacher than his score.

And remember even if IQ is a contributory cause to poor classroom behaviour, it's not an excuse. It still needs to be corrected - but at least now you know he's well capable of understanding instruction on this.

Everything EdithWeston said. In the long run, it's going to be as much a question of getting him on board as of getting his teachers on board. But of course that is difficult while they are still young. Try to make it fun for him at home.

Good point EdithWeston. I agree that IQ is absolutely no excuse for not following instructions etc, and of course he cannot be moved up if he is not performing. This is exactely why I am doubting if I should even tell the teacher.
However knowing his IQ has helped me understand him a little bit better - the contradictions in his character (able to concentrate on things that interest him for a looooong amount of time vs lack of concentration at school; quick grasp of more complicated issues vs not doing his homework very well etc).
Maybe knowing it would help his teacher as well, I don't know.

Good point about getting HIM on board as well, this is something we can work on at home.

It is tough. dd (not as bright) does not seem to be performing to her ability at school either. she is very "distractable" I tried saying stuff last year but it made not a blind bit of difference. I think having concrete evidence will help, though asking the teachers advice would be the way to go at first.

Hi,

My ds was also tested following lots of problems.

One thing I did, which you may like to do, was to ensure that I had lots of knowledge about IQ tests, and percentiles/rarity so that you can tell the school how gifted he really is.

Did you have achievement testing done? Often schools will take more notice of this and the relevant grade equivalents than IQ scores which they rarely understand.

Sorry to contradict you blackeyedsusan but ime schools rarely know what to do with a gifted child, especially one who is uncooperative. You are his advocate and if I was you I would make sure I had read as much as I could about gifted kids as possible before approaching the school.

I would expect he is not finishing his work because he is bored rigid and maybe confused as to why he is expected to complete work that he knew years ago.

And can I just make a little point as an aside here - please do consider telling your child(ren) at some point that they are gifted!

One of my ex's was not told until university (IQ 155) by which point he had such problems he never overcame them properly (no idea how to apply effort to school work/employment, everything had always just been super duper easy until that point, also some awful social problems as he didn't really appreciate how other people weren't able to grasp the same ideas and concepts as him, also still has no idea he has a major problem with Executive Functioning).

I was also recently told by my mum that I was very very bright as a child and I was completely to hear this - I had never ever considered myself to be bright, just had no idea.

There is nothing wrong with self-awareness, provided it's handled properly. Potential is awfully difficult to fulfill if you don't know you have it! [hgrin]

Also, I recently read somewhere that whatever the child's IQ, it is very likely to be within 10 points of parents and siblings. It runs in families (stands to reason - we look for mates on a similar intellectual level)

So OP, the siblings issue shouldn't be too much of a problem [hsmile]

I was not suggesting that they would definately know what needed to be done, just that it gives them a chance to find out and "save face" gives you chance to work with them rather than demanding that they do something. you leave that til the next meeting.

You could always wait until the next time you're seeing the teacher - do you have a parents' evening coming up? It'll look less pointed, and you often get better outcomes from discussion when the teacher is teed up with performance information.

Cory and EdithWestern advice is great. IQ is potential, intelligence is not academia.

"The teacher will teach him according to what he is showing her he can do. If he is not completing the work he will (quite rightly) not be moved ahead. IQ is potential not performance - and she has to work on the basis of his performance."

"it's going to be as much a question of getting him on board as of getting his teachers on board. But of course that is difficult while they are still young. Try to make it fun for him at home."

Self motivation is very important-but, he just might not have found what motivates him yet! The best sciences (I am a chemistry fanatic) aren't till secondary school, languages are not taught in ernest till later as well, he might be motivated then. Maybe when he realises what he wants to do later he will be more motivated (unfortunately maybe not as well). Do tell him he needs to work. At the moment my own DS motivation is do the homework, then do what you like!

As adults do we do lots of "work" after work for anything other than career advancement (or to keep our jobs)? So are we expecting to much of a child to love school work just as they have a high IQ! At university motivation and wanting to do the profession you were working towards meant so much more than "intelligence".

Personally I would not tell the child he is "gifted".

Dnmama,

I agree with iggly that it's probably not best, at this stage, to tell your child they are gifted. I've always told my children about their strengths & I'm not just saying you're good at maths, it's also to do with their skills, like ds is a heuristic learner, (takes everything onboard at once, very quickly,) whilst dd has amazing concentration. They are thus aware that different people have different academic strengths and/or weaknesses, just like some people are better at running or drawing or whatever. I actually think it's really important to do this (like eyeofnewt suggested,) to help them maximise their potential & so they can learn the methods of doing things that work best for them. Also as he's had an iq test your ds has probably started wondering about a few things.

Oh & definitely talk to the school about his results, just say you decided to get him tested & here are the results. And hopefully they will start to talk a out how they can help him achieve his potential! They may have to highlight what they perceive to be his weaknesses in order to do this,but try not to be offended at this, it can be a starting point to help explain why his iq seems to be out of kilter with his performance.

Incidentally, how do you go about getting an iq test, I've never felt the need as school have been really good at recognising my kids' potential, but it would be something I'd consider?

I think it is important for a child to know that you think they are good at things, not necessarily gifted (which often means 'geek' to the child). It is weird looking back on my own childhood - I was from a very working class background and although I didn't excel at school I always felt different, was bullied. My mum said that I read well from a young age, always ended up with reasonable marks with little effort and always felt not good enough by my parents. The crux being that they knew I was very bright but didn't tell me. They always compared me to my DB saying 'you are the bright one' and always expected more. Consequently my self-esteem plummetted and I became very isolated until late in secondary school. It is only now that I recognise my over sensitivities (hard work as my parents deemed it), I remember being finicky with shoes, socks (still hate wearing socks ) and being very affected by the drought in Ethiopia when band aid was released (aged ?8 ish). I was never asked to do homework and often just did it on the bus to school. I never understood why until I became a mother to dd1 who exhibits all my over sensitivities. Luckily I am well informed and can accommodate her, understand why she behaves in certain ways at times.

Sorry for rambling, but this is why you need to tell the teachers. He needs challenge, to learn that life isn't a breeze and that hard work gets good results

Its only now I'm in my 30's that I have even come close to fulfilling my potential and recently did my pg dip SCPHN.

Hi All,

Sorry we've been away so I have not been able to respond,but thanks again for all the replies they have helped shape my thinking a bit more.

One question, what's achievement testing? Is it different to IQ testing?

Joyn, we went to an educational psychologist - we had to go private and it cost a lot of money but it has been worth it, as it has highlighted some of the contradictions in ds's character/behaviour which were a bit odd to us. Although as you can see, we are now facing the decision of what to do with what we now know....

Hi dnmama - Your words in your op:
never shuts up", "talks at lenght about things that interest him", "can do the work but does not finish his worksheet" "doesn't seem to listen but then knows what is going on"

He sounds exactly like my son who is also gifted. Has anyone ever suggested your son may have Asperger Syndrome?
If I were you I would have a look at this and see if you can see your son in what it says there

Hi LauraIngallsWilder
Thanks for the article. No, Asbergers Syndrome has not been suggested and after reading your article, I don't think that's him - he is very mature emotionally (very considerate of other people's feelings, very helpful, understands other people's motives, is good in groups, funny etc).
His main problem seems to be with authority - he is always questioning rules/demands and suggesting other solutions if he does not want to do something. It can be tiring at home and I know it's not at all good in a classroom setting. For example he told his teacher that they had really talked about topic X long enough now, and could they not move on to topic Z? He says it with a charming smile but still....gifted or not, I don't think it's an excuse for bad behaviour.
We have decided to talk to the school even though I am still a bit worried they will laugh at us! Also I am not sure how a child like ds can be accomodated in a class of 30. Has anyone made the switch to private education and found it better/worse/much the same?
Thanks again.

Rather than focusing on his giftedness I would focus on him as a whole person. The overall picture.
If I showed your posts to my family they would think I was you writing about my son - cos he can be thoughful about others (sometimes!)

I may of course be wrong - to be sure I'd investigate further so you can rule it out.

I think I would focus on discussing his behaviour with him calmly and explain that a mature behaviour will actually give him more control over his learning and a better chance to work at a level that is suited to his abilities. Explain that adults, too, get their way at work by speaking in the proper way to the people in a position above them and that this is something he needs to learn if he wants to have a good time at school.

My DD has a similar IQ, the school said "oh, that's not overly high, don't IQ scores go up to 200". I got DD's Psych to phone the school and explain that the scoring of IQ tests has changed over the years and that different tests through up different scores. She told the Head to look at percentiles and the rarity of being 99.9%+
Most teacher's we've met have no idea about IQ tests and scoring so make sure your Psych is available to talk it through with the teachers.

We suspect our daughter is g&t as well, she exibits a lot of sensibilities typical to gt children. She is not top of her class in any subjects but we have been told over and over again that her creative development is way ahead of her age - this does not translate into amazing drawing or instrument playing (though she has quite an amazing voice for a 6 year old!). She also has a very developed sense of humour and is very sensitive to other people's (and animals) feelings. When she was in nursery teachers would ask her to help them with some "difficut children" (with some severe behavioural problems) as she would be the only one who would be able to reach them and get them to talk. However her current teacher at our last parent consultation was very negative about our daughter behaviour and achievements..she implied that she has serious social (and perhaps) emotional problems and that she is not able to form healthy relationship with other children. I found this quite shocking as I have not noticed any of that (though I am a VERY tuned in mother), she seems a very happy bubbly (though sometimes bossy and stuborn) little girl that makes friends easily. Also, teacher said that her academic performance is suffering a lot because she is not focused or interested (as she is preocupied with her social issues). However, she always tells me (excitedly) about everything they've done in school , is constantly "researching" into her current topic and is able to do some quite advanced math. It seems to me that a child they see is not a child we see at home. However it is quite tricky to contradict the teacher's assesment as it might cause more problems. Just like you we are thinking about having our daughter assesed and than based on the results talk to school. How did you find the educational psychiatrist? How much did that cost privately? Thanks.