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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

Original poster

DC left reception at level 2B

49 replies

NorhamGardens · 13/10/2011 11:44

My youngest was level 1A in writing, level 2B in reading/literacy and 2B in numeracy at end of reception, was born in May and now in Y1.

DC is going into an extended reading programme currently.

DC seems fairly bright but these levels have only just come to my attention. I got some documentation from the school and DC seems to have reached a level 9 and then they did some extra assessing?

Teacher last year was a bit dismissive and said 'well you can tell they've spent a lot of time with adults'. Not true.

Am I right in thinking that this is fairly unusual and I should be asking questions about extension or G&T programmes? A bit clueless, sorry.

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 13/10/2011 11:57

I don't see why you have to ask any questions just because of the levels your dc's school think he is working at????? Either he is happy and the work he is getting is of interest to him or he isn't and it isn't. Surely you have an idea of the sort of work he is doing, or at the very least will see when you have parents' evening, and you can respond to that, rather than to a "level" that is clearly meaningless to you.

FeelMyWraith · 13/10/2011 11:59

Oh lordy. DD has her first parents evening tonight. Are these levels supposed to mean something to me? If they tell me dd is working at a certain level do I just nod?

It's a whole new world.

Agree with rabbit. Is your child happy?

AngryFeet · 13/10/2011 12:03

We didn't get levels in reception. DD left Y1 at level 2B and she was considered above average so yes this is way above average for reception.

Personally I don't go in for all that G&T crap but if you want to I am sure you could. Might be too much pressure too soon though.

iggly2 · 13/10/2011 12:33

Sounds like you're happy and I hope your DS is happySmile. If they have already started him on an extended reading program and taken the time to assess him at NC levels they sound on the ball. Do you need to go in asking questions about extension work when they already are (in at least one area, maybe more)?

iggly2 · 13/10/2011 12:35

Not all schools do the G and T top 5-10% thing. DS's doesn't. The main thing is they have appropriate work.

blackeyedsusan · 13/10/2011 13:20

you are fortunate that they have assessed him beyond level 9 on the eyfs scales. it is definately above average.

you are also fortunate that they are doing an extended reading programme with him.

it is worth finding out what these levels mean and what the school is teaching him. if you are fairly happy with the way things are going then ask for an explanation at parents evening.

themed · 13/10/2011 19:46

I agree that you are very lucky they assessed your child in that way, and that they are extending them with their reading.

One of my DC is an August born and at the end of reception was reading chapter books but was assessed as "8" in reading and chugging their way through ORT at school - they never offered any opportunity for extension!

I am not sure what else you would like them to do, but maybe you could have a think about it and go and see them. I wouldn't say 1a was exceptional for writing, but 2b for reading and maths is good, but that's only my opinion of course!

AnxiousElephant · 14/10/2011 00:05

Maths is more tricky because there are more parts to it i.e. some pupils might not be able to count past 20 after reception but may know some fractions/ tell time which isn't covered much in YR. My dd was given 7 but that doesn't really reflect her ability tbh.

blackeyedsusan · 14/10/2011 07:46

anxious elephant, theyhave to demonstrate their ability independently. if no-one asks them about numbers past 20 how is anyone going to know?

swallowedAfly · 14/10/2011 07:55

personally i think it's just too young to have any meaning. all it really means at this stage is that they are ahead of other kids, it doesn't really denote that they are remarkably bright or gifted - just that they've come along on some basic skills faster.

ds is considered bright and has always been well ahead on some things but i don't see those things as being good indicators of him being gifted. i just don't think that being faster than others at learning these basic skills really tells you much.

it is more, i think, in thinking styles, the things they can work out, the depth of understanding that they take from something they see or experience or watch or discuss that lets you know their intellectual capacity. and that's hard to measure in 'levels' in a 5 year old.

just give it time and keep sure that they are giving stimulating work and you yourself make sure you make time to have conversations with them and ask open ended questions that let them explore ideas and give them little challenges etc. i believe that kind of thing is far more 'extending' than different reading books or higher level maths at this stage - talk, explore, get them to reason and give opportunities for learning to be fascinating.

AnxiousElephant · 15/10/2011 01:03

TBH swallow I was told all of that 'oh she is really bright at 2yo - 1 year ahead developmentally in all areas as assessed by the HV' and lots of 'well they mostly level out' - actually I haven't found this to be the case when they are working 1-2 years ahead, from the advanced toddlers I have known. The gap has actually got wider in many cases.
It stands to reason that the earlier children learn to read, especially non-fiction, the more knowledge they can aquire. Unless you have a parent who reads lots of general knowledge fact books at bedtime, which I certainly don't. We look up things that we discuss on the internet but sometimes we forget because life is hectic and time doesn't permit me to do it - yet if dd can read well then she can look up information herself.
I'm certainly not saying that children should be hothoused/ tutored into academia and we do no more than the recommended 10 minutes reading per day, she only reads school books and we read books of her choice to her at bedtime. So clearly it isn't bright hardworking as defined by many professionals because she doesn't read constantly, just finds it naturally easy to do.

AnxiousElephant · 15/10/2011 01:06

I do completely agree that giftedness is more than just reading levels though and things like analysis of problems, changing strategies to solve them, suggesting alternatives and creating new ideas is very difficult to measure.

AnxiousElephant · 15/10/2011 01:09

Thats my point Blacky - NC levels in maths are stilted and there is asyncromous development in maths so things not covered in EYFS are not tested in YR generally and so if they are ahead in one area it isn't reflected in the score if they haven't met one of the criteria prior to NC level iyswim.

swallowedAfly · 15/10/2011 11:58

being able to stuff more knowledge doesn't change IQ or anything - you just get through the list of things to know faster iyswim.

if a child could list every consellation and planet etc in order of distance from the earth it would tell you nothing about that child's IQ, giftedness or potential. it'd just tell you there memory worked and they could memorise a list of information if motivated to do so.

i agree things don't always level out - some people are more intelligent than others and will find it easier to learn. i find it easy to learn and i suspect ds is the same as me - information/skills/patterns/etc just slot into place easily - i describe it as hanging on my tree and i suspect this is something to do with what that kind of general intelligence is, having a certain map or structure in place in the brain that information maps onto readily and allows for comparing/contrasting/matching etc etc to occur naturally.

it's what you can do with the information that counts - the leaps that come from the knowledge being assimilated. i'm just not convinced that things can be reliably measured by existing schema that schools use on small children. basically you can do great on their tick boxes without being naturally particularly intelligent and with potential to be very intelligent and presumably you can be naturally bright and have great potential despite not doing well in those tick boxes for the first couple of years.

i'm waffling sorry.

iggly2 · 15/10/2011 21:12

Some interesting points. I think "if a child could list every consellation and planet etc in order of distance from the earth it would tell you nothing about that child's IQ, giftedness or potential. it'd just tell you there memory worked and they could memorise a list of information if motivated to do so."
Down plays a VERY IMPORTANT ability that of memory. Memory is very important for POTENTIAL. It helps you get good grades at exams and do a LOT of professional jobs: Medicine/Vet/Dentistry/Law/Languages...Shock. About the only exam I think does not require a significant amount of memory is English comprehension/interpretation, maths .

I think I would be reluctant to class anyone as exceptionally bright (call it what you want ) till as a child they performed better than an average adult (even then I may say a bright adult), so much is exposure.

IQ actually is not that important if you are talking of silly MENSA IQ tests they are very easily taught (Do it yourself get an 11+ book and do a few, you/and or your child will get better).Schools are frequently more interested in VR compared to NVR as NVR does not require you to have worked hard (eg increasing your vocabulary by reading lots). VR can reflect academic success greater than NVR. I think academia and intelligence are different.

iggly2 · 15/10/2011 21:15

I think so much is parents reading to their child lots , spending lots of time with them . Lots of adult company. Child interest in things that happen to be "academic".

iggly2 · 15/10/2011 21:19

The more you read and answer question etc the more you learn to question. IQ has been found to be very elastic. When I refer to exams I am refering to up to GCSE level , interpretation and comprehension probably come into arts and humanities at A-level more (maybe RS/History GCSE have a little).

iggly2 · 15/10/2011 21:23

I do find it amazing that people think IQ should always correlate to academic/professional success.

muffinflop · 15/10/2011 21:46

DD has started reception as a 2b in literacy. It's not really something I'm expecting her to put on her CV and it really doesn't matter

AnxiousElephant · 15/10/2011 21:57

I'm interested in how you know your childs NC level on starting reception??? Confused

ibizagirl · 16/10/2011 07:34

It doesn't really matter at all. Dd has always been gifted and was given 3b for literacy in year 1 and in year 2 reading age was "16+" on her report. Its just figures for the school. I know she is very able and thats all that matters. Just be proud whatever your child does. x x

muffinflop · 16/10/2011 08:40

Ok I should have said 'around a 2b' because that's what her teacher told me at parents evening. Her words were 'we assessed DD to decide what to do with her and shes already working around a 2b'. I don't know how they assessed her, like I said it's not a big deal (to me)

swallowedAfly · 16/10/2011 18:50

yes good point - memory is really important though would obviously only get you so far on it's own re: a young child with a great memory can say the alphabet/count to a hundred without being able to spell or do basic addition. big scheme memory plays into everything i guess but i was thinking child development at this stage and the distinction between remembering something and meaningfully 'knowing' it.

iggly2 · 16/10/2011 19:52

My Ds's teachers always comment on his memory (a lot of posters here comment on their childs memory being very good as well). A lot of his reading is word recognition (as adults that is what we do most as well) he needs to be pointed out a word once and then he knows it. If you remember words quickly you get to read more and accumulate more general knowledge(especially as you are not fustrated at not knowing all the words). You may encounter more questions as you accumulate knowledge.

I think maths is quite a lot about memory as well, especially, more complicated mental arithmetic (here working memory comes into play ) eg speed calculating 49 x 50 (you first calculate 50 x 50 remember the answer then minus another 50). Or even more complicated eg doing 138 x a number (often multiply it by 100 , then 30 , then 8 and adding them all). Number bonds are very important for adding all the numbers so again memory.Or to remember a positive x positive is positive, but, a negative x postitive is negative, etc.

Mnemonics are an important part of every medical/veterinary/dentistry students study eg for cranial nerves (rude Wink and innocent versions). Everyone likes things that help the old memory and to be fair I do believe if you "work something out for yourself" first time it often helps you remember it, but you do not want to be working it out for yourself everytime!