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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

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Original poster

Underachieving with 11+ in 2 weeks. Help!

25 replies

Dunlurking · 12/09/2011 11:19

Sorry long pre-ambling one here. Can anyone help?

10 year old DD is supposedly brighter than her older brother who got into our local grammar comfortably. At least that?s what the primary school would have us believe. But she's not getting the marks in the practice papers that he did. She has a tendency to leap to the answer, rather than focus on what the question is about and work her way through it. So silly or careless mistakes drag her marks down to the extent that she may be borderline getting in.

This seems to follow what the teacher has said about how she approaches Maths at school, which is that she leaps to putting down the answer, without showing her working out. She is the best Mathematician (supposedly) they can remember having (and her brother was in the top 10 for his year in the maths challenge at the grammar school recently - so he was pretty good!). She has covered the year 6 Maths work already and goes to G&T session at the Grammar School, so I just don't understand why she isn't getting the marks her brother did. This applies to the Non Verbal, Verbal and Maths tests.

Can anyone suggest what I can do at this stage? She is an impulsive person so could she have an element of ADHD or is this part of her G&T? Do I just keep going with the practice papers, wait and see what mark she gets in the exam? If she is borderline do I research a diagnosis of ADHD (which would help if we have to appeal)?

Suggestions please....

OP posts:

AMumInScotland · 12/09/2011 11:37

I don't think you need to go looking for a diagnosis, or thinking its "part of her G&T". She is just an impulsive peson - many 10yo are like this. It isn't either a problem or part of anything.

If it was me, I'd sit her down and have a talk about the 11+ exam and what she will need to do in order to show her true abilities in it. You'll know how to pitch that for her to hear you.

But she needs to understand that -

They need her to show her working out because some people might just guess and they don't know she's not like that

She needs to read the question carefully and make sure she thinks about it before giving her answer. Because, again, if she makes a silly mistake then they won't know that she does understand it really, and won't give her the mark.

Maybe stress that the person marking her paper won't be someone who knows her like her teacher, but someone who can only go on what she puts down, so she has to be extra careful as they won't be able to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Have you gone through her practice papers with her and shown her where she's gone wrong? That's just as important as her doing the practice - you can't learn from practicing anything unless you see the places where it didn't go right, and think through how you can sort those issues out.

Original poster

Dunlurking · 12/09/2011 11:47

Thanks for that AMumInScotland.

I think sitting her down for that talk is a good idea. It's reassuring that you don't think there is an underlying problem.

I go through the papers with her to look at the ones she has got wrong. She has a go at working out the correct answer, and if she is struggling we look at how she could have approached it to get the correct answer. My Mum goes through the Maths ones with her as she was a Maths teacher.

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AMumInScotland · 12/09/2011 15:15

It's certainly worth looking at the ones where she's just not taken time to read the question properly, and show her how she could have easily answered the real question and got the points if she'd been just that bit more careful, as well as the ones where her method is wrong etc.

Just getting your exam technique right - simple things like this, and also looking at how many points a question is worth and pitching your answer at the right level - can make a big difference in any exam. Plus not getting bogged down on a low-point question you can't answer!

Original poster

Dunlurking · 12/09/2011 20:16

Yes we have been trying some of those things. Thank you for those suggestions AMumInScotland as there are definitely more exam technique things we can work on there. Think I might also ask her to add up the points on those she got wrong but should have got right - for her to see how many points she could have got just by approaching the question better.

She is getting quite good at moving on when she's not getting anywhere with a question, thank goodness. We came across an impossibly hard one of those logic problems where they give you about 5 statements and then ask you to say how old soneone is, or what colour they are wearing, or whatever. It took me five minutes to work it out in the end. She said - Oh I just guessed because it was taking me too long! Was very impressed with that!

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SquirtedPerfumeUpNoseInBoots · 12/09/2011 21:00

I am in exactly the same boat. It's horribly stressful isn't it? My DS is perfectly capable but the marks on his practice papers are shocking. We have tried bribery, threats, treats, you name it. Anyhow, I have finally realised he is rushing to get the answer written as he fears not getting the paper finished. I have explained until I am blue in the face that he is better to get two thirds of the paper all correct and some left out than rush and only get half right. I've told him he is not allowed to write his answer on the paper without writing it on the scribble paper first, and that has had a result of sorts. My DS has his heart set on the school (to the extent of talking about which locker is his) and it will break his heart if he doesn't get in. And there is a real possibility he won't.

Maybe slowing down would help in your case as well?

I sympathize, it's a horrible time.

Merle · 12/09/2011 21:09

Hi, no real advice to add to AMinS's but I just wanted to say that we struggled on with the practise and it seemed that our DS1 would never get it right and then, all of a sudden, it all seemed to 'click', and he started to get consistently good marks. They are young and bright, so suddenly it all falls into place. Two weeks is still a fair amount of time, so keep at it and you might be surprised.

AtAmber · 12/09/2011 21:31

Hi. Is your ds trying her best with the papers? We were in the same situation 2 years ago and ds's marks were getting worse not better. It turned out that he was just rushing through them as he just wanted to get them done as quickly as possible. He started taking more care and got well over the pass mark in the 11+.

Original poster

Dunlurking · 13/09/2011 16:11

Sorry not to reply before. Thanks SquirtedPerfumeUpNoseInBoots, Merle and AtAmber. Yes I think that rushing could be part of the problem, although she's not ending up with loads of time at the end. it's usually about right time wise. I think the suggestion of writing on the scribble paper is a good one.

Also thanks for reassurance that it may all click within the next 2 weeks. She's not getting shocking marks, just borderline ones and I think it's an exam technique thing. I just hope we can crack it.

Good Luck to your ds SPUNIB When is his exam and when will you hear the results?

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SquirtedPerfumeUpNoseInBoots · 13/09/2011 18:22

I'm in northern Ireland, so we have three papers two in november and one in December. Get the results in feb, but we wont know which school until the end of may.

Original poster

Dunlurking · 13/09/2011 19:40

So you have a long wait for results. That's hard!

We hear 2 weeks after the exam and that's just before the school applications have to be in - so you have time to decide whether the mark is good enough to put the grammar school first choice. If the mark is borderline to the previous years' bottom entry mark you then spend 6 months worrying about the outcome. Would REALLY like to avoid that!

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SquirtedPerfumeUpNoseInBoots · 13/09/2011 21:10

Yes, ideally I would like the score I know he is capable of and not spend the whole school year stressed out. But hey ho, cant do it for them.

Good luck to your DD.

Original poster

Dunlurking · 14/09/2011 06:38

Thanks SquirtedPerfume. Will post how it goes.

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Wormshuffler · 14/09/2011 06:49

It is so stressful, My DS takes the first paper on saturday and his scores are lower than his sisters too, in fact he hasnt really made any progress since we started practicing last may! however the mock tests he is doing in school he is apparently comfortably passing. I am beginning to wonder if the stress of it all is upskittling him as I can't help but speak with frustration when we go throught e paper together afterwards.
I am now trying the "just do your best" and if that doesn't get you a pass then the grammar may not be the best place for you. After all if the pressure is causing him stress now it will be hard for him if he does get to the school.

Original poster

Dunlurking · 15/09/2011 13:41

Good Luck to your ds Wormshuffler. I feel happier that I'm not alone with the frustrations!

My line to my daughter is that I think she will pass - I just don't like to see silly mistakes losing her marks. I think my stress and frustration is probably showing. Wish I had invested in a tutor now, but we didn't have any problems with ds - just spent 8 weeks over the summer working through past papers and he did well.

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Original poster

Dunlurking · 17/09/2011 16:36

Hope your ds got on OK today Wormshuffler.

Thanks alot to everyone for your advice on here. It has helped dd focus on techniques that will help and in the last 24 hours she has increased her VR practice result by 30 marks, couldn't believe it, although it is one of the older and I think easier papers, that I was saving for the last week, hoping to boost her confidence, which of course it has! Also increased her NVR mark by 14. Maths has definitely plateaued, but think it will be good enough with the other scores now. Fingers crossed for the day but THANKS ALL.

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TheOriginalFAB · 17/09/2011 16:42

I don't understand how you can get to a thought that she has ADHD from her rushing to answer questions.

gazzalw · 17/09/2011 17:26

Wormshuffler am guessing your DS might have done the same exam as our DS. Ds has been really frustrating - we certainly reached a plateau and his marks vary enormously. Suddenly realised that he is not bothering because it's not the real thing. I am not personally convinced that there are that many 10 year olds who are going to perform perfectly at home - know DS just was rushing to get on with rest of his life.

Not sure there is any solution - except that you can't make a child do what you would do. It is easy for all of us with the benefit of many years of adult hindsight and exam taking to suggest that they slow down, check answers etc... but do you think we were any different at the same age.
Have realised that really they will do what they will do and as one can't helicopter them in the exam one just has to have faith in their abilities and that they will pull finger out when required.
It's very hard though but glad to hear that we have not all got perfect automaton children who don't have minds of their own!

gazzalw · 17/09/2011 17:26

Merle · 24/09/2011 08:27

How's it going? Has she taken it or is it next week?

Original poster

Dunlurking · 24/09/2011 15:57

Hi Merle. Back from the test 2 hours ago. She didn't like the non verbal and ran out of time but apparently everyone was the same. Maths and Verbal apparently "OK". I'm very proud that she sounds to have concentrated hard, worked her way through, and not allowed the difficulty of the non verbal (which was the first) to faze her with the others. Thank goodness it is over :) I don't ever have to coach a child through that again. We had a ceremonial jumping up and down on past papers when we got home!

I thought I had done too many papers with her, but it turns out there were still new question types in there and some that she had only tried once or twice, so all the practicing was worth it (I hope). Will get her score in 2 weeks and post how she has done!

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Merle · 24/09/2011 22:27

Well done to you both. A real achievement to have got through the tests in good spirits. Fingers crossed that it's all paid off.

Original poster

Dunlurking · 01/10/2011 15:35

Thank you everyone who posted with advice. I really think you have helped us avoid the dreaded wait to see if her score is good enough.

The letter arrived this morning and we are confident she will get in. Her maths and verbal reasoning scores were on a par with her brother's. The non verbal 15 marks less, but her overall score is comfortably above the bottom score that kids have got in with over the last 5 years so we shall relax now

Good Luck to those of you with tests still to come, and thanks all for the advice and support. It did the trick!

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Wormshuffler · 03/10/2011 07:32

Wow you got your results back within a week!!! I thought ours was good with a 3 week wait! (12 more days to go!) Congratulations to your DD...................and relax.

Original poster

Dunlurking · 03/10/2011 19:38

Thanks Wormshuffler. Keeping my fingers crossed for your ds now....

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Original poster

Dunlurking · 01/03/2012 08:16

Got our email 10 minutes ago and dd is in. Tears of relief all round after 3 weeks of her worrying. Any news from those of you also on this thread? (Have been following gazzalw's thread of 1st March avidly)

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