different types of maths brains

[darleneconnor]

DS's teacher has said he is very gifted at Maths and he is going to be assessed to see 'what kind of maths brain he has'. atm he seems to be good at 'pure' maths but not so great at problem solving.

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

As a child I was good at maths but poor at arithmetic - it's definitely possible to be good at different areas of maths, but I'm not sure I quite understand the distinction between pure maths and problem solving (I'm sure you get problem solving in pure maths for instance). How old is he? If quite young, then maybe she's using pure maths to describe arithmetic - possibly?

I guess the difference between arithmetic, conceptual, spacial etc.

I hope you will update when you find out as I am about to start some OU courses about developing mathematical thinking in children, so I'm really interested in all this :)

Snorkie I'm a bit like you were - I've always been great at maths, and have been very successful in my other OU degree courses involving mechanics, calculus etc. But if you ask me to multiply 23 and 47 I'm like this

I can work that stuff out, but I'm not at all fast. Whereas DH, who is utterly baffled by what I study, could work it out within a few seconds.

Math anxiety (I mean the condition, not the MNer obviously!) is very common - ie panicking when asked to do quick arithmetic - even if they are actually gifted at maths.

I think the distinction between maths and arithmetic is not made clear enough. That's why companies like kumon do so well, and they are merely improving arithmetic recall and making shedloads of money for it, without necessarily improving actual mathematic ability.

Sorry wandered off topic somewhat didn't I

Will be watching this thread with great interest. DD1 in yr5 has always struggled with mental recall/times tables and has labelled herself as "Thick" even though she is very strong in other maths areas such as spatial and conceptual. She has great literacy skills and so can easily access trickily worded questions. It would be very interesting to actually get a proper measure of what she CAN do instead of being placed in the bottom ability half because of her poor recall. So frustrating.

lovecheese, I got to year 6 before surprised teachers started saying 'oh we never realised you were good at maths'. With arithmetic I was both slow and made mistakes (though I understood the theory just fine) and so much of primary school maths either is or relies on arithmetic it's really easy to be written off as bad at maths generally at that stage. A good dose of kumon early on was probably exactly what I needed.

snorkie you have just described my DD! Her lack of quick recall and mistakes in class - even though she, too, understands the theory - is labelling her unfairly and it is denting her confidence. She was actually in tears last night because she thinks that the teachers have no faith in her. However, she would run a mile at the thought of (whispers) Kumon, she would absolutely hate it and I wouldn't push her to do it; what probably doesn't help either is that her younger sisiter in year 2 HAS got the retention of facts and quick recall and, this will make you laugh, has asked if she can go to Kumon "for fun"!!.

Oh I'd have loathed kumon too lovecheese, and I think you're right that it only appeals to those children who find it easy and so by definition don't really need it. Never thought of it like that before! Your dd probaby does need to continue to hone her arithmetic skills as far as possible, but in the long run, as she gets older, what with calculator use being standard and much more time available to solve more conceptual problems she will probably come into her own if she can get past the early labelling.

Yes, do let us know. I think this stuff is facinating. Ds is 'gifted' at maths, has spectacular recall and memory, understands conceptual things brilliantly but has no spacial ability. He often overcomplicates things in problem solving because he wants to write an algebraic expression that describes the problem (rather than a simpler method - he's Year 4 so the teacher is not really expecting them to think up algebraic expressions!).

Dh was also has exceptional mathematical ability and has a PHd but cannot compete with ds is the speed stakes for mental arithmatic!

Thanks snorkie; We will still beaver away at the * X tables and quick recall. I really hope your last sentence happens, maybe one day I will be posting to tell you that she got a 1st in her maths degree!

D'you think it's a common thing then? Having confidence knocked JUST because of poor speed at arithmetic? That sucks. As I said above IMO there needs to be more separation of arithmetic and maths.

I don't deny kumon could be great for improving recall - I just wish they'd advertise it as such!

I'm not arbitrarily ranting BTW, I used to work for them. Once I was told not to help a struggling child understand how long division works, I knew it was time to quit - after helping said child that is.

Anyway, I may be biased but IMO this is the better way round in the long term. It's all very well reciting the X tables but it is meaningless if you don't understand what multiplication actually is! And as already mentioned, in everyday life you can use a calculator - because if you understand the concept behind the maths, you actually know what numbers to input to solve your budget/insurance/decorating/whatever issue.

I hope your DCs get more confidence in themselves soon. :)

As a (hopefully!) future KS2 teacher I am also watching for ideas on how to improve recall etc so do share if you find anything that really works

I've got a simple game that helps with X tables which I can post here if anyone's interested (I've posted it before on MN)

Yup, this sounds familiar to me, too. Have a DD (6) at home who understands negative numbers, can measure angles of a triangle, do long division, but the teachers at her school keep saying 'but she doesn't get everything 100% right all the time...'

She doesn't - I've seen her carry 6 instead of 5, or come up with 3x 4 is 13 or whatever, but that doesn't mean she doesn't understand the mechanics of what she's doing, which I reckon is the important part (didn't you used to get marks for showing your workings excactly for that reason ??)

Kids (and adults) are definitely good at different parts of maths.

My DD is great at addition/subtraction, absolutely fantastic at algebra, graphs, data handling but really struggles with area and perimeters and estimating how big/little something is.

I imagine a lot of children are not good at problem solving because they are not given the exposure to it, especially in the early years of school. You start to get little paragraphs to sort out the information to work out the calculation, but there isnt enough done for children to relate real maths into real life situations.

Tests tend to be tick boxes so they dont have to work anything out and computer programmes are also tick boxes.

It's another reason why learning through play is so important - it allows physical exploration of concepts which really solidifies them in the mind. Very often, children will work out concepts for themselves before a teacher telling them.

As for showing working out - AARGH! bugbear alert. My DSDs do all their maths HW since starting yr7 online. It's a great site in itself, but at no point does the teacher get to see their working out! So the DSDs don't get to practise the correct ways of showing the mathematical processes. FFS they will be doing GCSEs in a few years how the hell are they supposed to get good marks without this?

Hi FredianSlippery
Totally agree with your last comment.

I am becoming more and more aware of the problem you just mentioned. I dont really know what my DC do at school, there isnt much in their books to show, so we use computer programmes at home where I have been able to see the gaps and lack of understanding.

The children just dont seem to get enough worded problems, like the type you get on exam papers, so they dont know how to search out the appropriate facts and work out the answers. They dont seem to do any of this in school and are yet working supposedly at a maths level several years above their age.

Both my DD have excellent mental ability but putting anything down on a piece of paper is a big no no.

Really worries me!

The board game Smath (no vested interest!) has helped in our household with arithmetic.