Another aspergers/ ASD and 'gifted' thread - which is it and does it matter?

[mumoverbored]

Reading the other thread on a similar subject, I wanted to ask about ds (age 5, heading for 6). He is a very able child academically but I suppose has some quirks and I am wondering if these are just part of being so-called 'gifted' or something we should look into more.

Things which concern me (a little) and COULD suggest possible ASD or Aspergers (sorry if my terminology isn't right - I don't know much about this):

• he has an amazing memory, like a photographic memory - has some quirky tricks with this which amaze people.
• he gets somewhat upset if routines change, although he can cope and doesn't have a total meltdown. The most would be some tears if he were tired or getting insistent we should do stuff the 'normal' way. It's not everything, just things he enjoys such as saying goodbye to his dad in the morning a particular way. School have said he is always noticing stuff and questioning (gently) if things change, although he definitely doesn't get upset about it there, just tends to ask why. My view is he is just curious about why there has been a change such as a different teacher on duty one lunchtime i.e. 'but you normally do Wednesday lunchtime break Mrs A so why are you on duty now?'. Teacher said she thinks he should just go and play and not do this (although I know he does run around with his friends too at least some of the time)

• he is still a little uncomfortable around loud noises (got much better with this - used to be a big problem when he was a toddler)
• school have said sometimes he doesn't join in with the other kids and goes to the book area loads to read
• he isn't into some of the things most five year olds boys are and has a relatively narrow range of interests (although not too bad and usually manages to find common ground with friends)

• he doesn't make new friends easily (but I figure he's still only five and if he's a bit shy...and again there have been exceptions to this where he has found kindred spirits and hit it off with them relatively quickly)

On the other hand:

• he loves his best friends and is (mostly) very sociable during playdates.
• he seems relatively 'popular' with kids at school - not the life and soul but they are kind to him and he is kind back and other kids say hello if we bump into them (but then maybe it's only later they start being meaner to kids who are quirkier?) or sometimes seek him out at parties or whatever.
• he is hugely empathetic and very kind (not saying ASD kids aren't but I have read that some struggle with this) - I can't imagine he could be kinder and am a very lucky mum! E.g. he planned nice surprises for my birthday
• he plays imaginatively
• has a very good sense of humour - lots of word play and tries to come up with jokes

(again, not saying ASD kids don't but I've read there can be trouble with understanding humour)

Overall, he is doing very well at school (although with a couple of typical gifted kids issues which I won't go into here), and I'd say he's a very happy, usually quite chilled out, kid (apart from if he's tired and routines change).

Any views? My gut feel is that he's just the typical clever slightly geeky kid but a comment from someone at school has made me wonder. No-one at school has suggested getting any diagnosing done and no-one has mentioned ASD or the like there YET but I wonder if they are thinking it based on a few minor comments.

Note too fwiw, both dh and MIL seem like they could be ASD or similar. They are uber intelligent but struggle with affection, MIL says inappropriate things without understanding they hurt people (but don't all MILS!) DH incredibly rational with rather limited emotions etc.

I've always gone down the line of not needing a dx unless the traits impact on your life in a negative way and a dx would enable you to correct that.
So DS had a dx at 8, DD is very Aspie but also G&T. Her traits didn't need specific support in school, didn't stop her acquiring friends or all of the other things that DS struggled with.
So I didn't seek a dx for her, although I did facilitate a lot at home in order to support her.
Does that make any kind of sense?

I don't usually post in here, but noticed your post on unanswered threads.

I have a son who has AS and despite being a high achiever at school he was bitterly unhappy, highly anxious and struggled socially. For him not seeking a diagnosis and support wasn't an option.

Some of the things you describe about your ds could be construed as ASD traits, but that doesn't mean he has AS. As you said he could just be a clever, quirky chap.

In my opinion, as long as he is happy, not anxious, achieving well, has friends and is well liked, it sounds like he doesn't need any additional support, so seeking a diagnosis wouldn't actually bring any benefits, other than perhaps answering the question either way for you.

As you probably know, ASD is a spectrum disorder, which means that many people have 'traits' without there being enough to be considered as actually having ASD. To get a diagnosis, you need traits across all three of the triad of impairments. explained here.

From what you've said, I wouldn't think he has traits from all three areas, but obviously it would be not only impossible, but wrong of me to suggest a diagnosis or otherwise over the internet

Someone once explained it to me as a bit like a hundred piece puzzle with each piece representing a trait. An awfully large percentage of society - most in fact, would have at least one or two 'pieces' of the puzzle. Some would have more, but its only when you start getting upwards of 80 pieces that a diagnosis becomes likely.

The classic age for Aspergers (so the higher functioning end of the spectrum) to be picked up is around transition to Junior school. That's when we managed to get some help for our ds - but - he was already an lonely, unhappy and anxious little boy and that started pretty much as soon as he started full time school.

Your little boy sounds lovely by the way and as long as he is happy, achieving and has friends and none of his 'traits' cause him disproportionate problems or distress in his life. I wouldn't worry.

Cross posted with Goblinchild, who explains it in a much better and more succint way than me.

Nice to have company!

Thank you both for taking the time to reply.

You've reassured me that as long as he is happy at school I should try not to worry. My gut feel is he is indeed just quirky and clever with some aspects that are a bit Aspergersy.

I feel sometimes like his teacher is trying to make him conform to a set ideal of a way children should behave and not accepting him for who he is.

Just keep track of what's happening and how he feels. Then if you need to kick arse offer guidance and support to the school, you will be prepared.
Very few children fit neatly into any sort of box, unless you lop bits off. Which is Not Good.
They need an approach tailored to their specific requirements.

Why thank you

Mumoverbored - more good advice from Goblinchild, so I'll just say "what she said".

Just thought I'd say that your DS sounds very, very similar to how my DS was at the same age - very bright, and could also tick the boxes for phenomenal memory (eg would remember random people's birthdays months later, and would bring it up in conversation and tell them which day of the week their birthday would have been in which year etc); v strong, almost obsessive interests (trains etc); extreme sensitivity to sound (also other sensory issues like getting very agitated about labels in clothes, or getting nails or hair cut); didn't always join in with other children (but read a lot and loved talking to adults), etc etc.

I did occasionally wonder about ASD, but in many other ways he didn't fit what I had read, and none of the tendencies were ever enough of a problem for me to feel the need to get a consultation or diagnosis.

He is now 12, still officially G&T, pretty much an all-rounder at school (except for team sports), very sociable, fewer sensory issues, much better at working with other people than he used to be, and none of his teachers have ever mentioned the possibility of ASD. I think a lot of (most?) bright boys have slightly geeky/obsessive tendencies (my nephew is similar).

Ex that's very reassuring (and I don't mean that to sound negative about ASD etc).

He has definitely got more easy-going with the sensitivities in the last year or two. He will occasionally mention a label is annoying him but is fine with physical stuff like haircuts and is very 'huggy'.

He is also more sociable than he used to be so going in the right direction at least. It was just the comments from school which made me wonder.

So, as someone with a ds who sounds very similar, have you got any advice e.g. what sort of school has sorted him, things to look out for? Things you've done that have particularly made him more socially more confident?

Your son seems to be in the realms of normal behaviour with very mild asperger traits. I wouldn't worry but just keep an eye on things. The fact that he is empathetic is great. I know one aspie kid like this and he is gorgeous but my son is the opposite and it is not nice to have to deal with! :(

There must be something in genetics and nurture too though as I seem to have a carbon copy of myself in one child and Oh in the other although OH is never around so not much nurture from his part! OH has lack of empathy and I have mild sensitivity issues relating to light and sound which aspie boy has - he is a mixture between his parents - and this condition can give the impression of mild OCD. There is no way I have OCD though as my house is a mess! ;)

mumoverbored - I don't think I can claim to have 'done' anything to make him more socially confident - it is mainly just a question of growing up, I think, and they do that automatically!

I think I've just been a normal sort of parent - indulging his obsessions and quirks to a certain extent, but also being blunt sometimes and telling him, for example, that other people really aren't as interested in trains/snakes/maths/Harry Potter as he is, and trying to encourage him not to talk about them all the time. I think socialising with plenty of adults and older children (cousins, friends' children) as well as with same-age people from school is very healthy for them in terms of picking up social skills.

As far as schools go, I have realised he is much, much happier all round when he is at a school that gives him opportunities to really run with his intelligence. He is now at a selective, independent boys' school (not an option for everyone, I know) and loves it, because being a maths/language geek is actually seen as a good thing, and the maths teachers let him and the other one or two on a similar level leap ahead to concepts from GCSE/A-level, even though they are only year 8.

I realised after the fact that he was very bored and miserable for the last couple of years in primary school (nothing new to learn, loads of boring Sats preparation) - it was only when I got the old, enthusiastic DS back once he started at secondary that I saw how under-stimulated he had been before. And when his brain is sufficiently occupied with lots of new, challenging things, he seems to be much happier and more sociable.

That is useful as that's the sort of school I've been starting to think about for him later on. One where it's okay to be slightly geeky!

We are quite lucky as although he does have some obsessive interests he understands that most other kids don't share them and so doesn't talk about the obsessions with them unless he knows they are into it too. Even then I've noticed he moderates what he says - not quite so much geeky detail!!

That was one of my biggest worries before he started school actually but luckily it hasn't been a problem so far. Phew.

I like the jigsaw analogy. Sometimes I think our family is from a different box entirely...

Geeky defines my family perfectly, on both sides of DS3's parents. DS1 and DS2 are lucky, they only got the geekiness from one side, so only DS2 is geeky. DS3 is hyper geeky though, sort of squared more than anything else, or maybe even cubed.
Obsessions since early childhood - churches, bells, wells, cathedrals, mills and their machinery, castles to a lesser degree. We are NOT religious fanatics - it is an architecture thing.
Memory - from age 2, the routes we take to the extent of, "that's not the right way!" from the car seat in the back of the car as we take a different route occasionally.

• also not only knows all tables up to goodness knows what level, but square numbers, cube numbers etc off by heart. Can consequently do long multiplication of whole and decimal numbers in his head amazingly quickly. Faster than me that's for sure.
• what he was given for all birthdays and by whom.
• all places we have ever been, photographic memory. Many other odd quirks too including ZERO sense of humour. Hates to be laughed at, as he perceives. However, very (over) huggy. No idea of the personal space of others at all. Diagnosed at age 7 as mildly ADHD with traits of aspergers. Older brother has it full blown, doing physics degree now. DS2, the geeky one, that is.