those who DC can read before school, did you actively teach them? or did they just pick it up?

[Greythorne]

Caveat: no idea if DD is G and T, but wanted to post here for (hoepfully) less judgey responses. I fear elsewhere on MN, people will just give me the "leave her be, she sounds lovely and normal and fine, let her do it in her own time" response.

So, here goes:

My DD is 4.1 and in school (we are in France and school starts at 3). She seems to be doing fine, loves drawing, loves writing her name and those of others, starting to want to write birthday cards to family etc. We read to her loads and she - like all kids - loves being read to. We are on chapter books, Enid Blyton, Magic Ballerina etc.

The thing is, here in France, they do not teach reading until the equivalent of year 1 (ie age 6). To me, she feels like she is ready to engage with reading.

BUT, I am worried I will somehow teach her incorrectly or put her off.

So, do those who genuinely start reading early (age 4 ish) do it on their own, just by being read to alot or do their parents actively teach them phonemes and synthetic phonics.

How do kids end up being able to read BEFORE starting reception?

I have the Phonics International scheme which has been recommended elsewhere on MN and it seems thorough but super complicated to me (a non teacher).

If your DC read earlier than being taught in school, how did it happen?

My dd was a spontaneous reader at 3 1/2 (she is now 11 and bright but not amazingly so). She always loved books - and would get me to read to her from a tiny age. We had magnetic letters around the place and used letters to identify things (this is Daddy's so it is labelled with D for Daddy, this is Mummy's so it is labelled with M for Mummy etc., and always used the sound of the letter rather than the name (duh rather than dee for example). I guess all that helped. She started spontaneously experimenting with spelling out her name around 2yrs 10mon, and picking out common words in a block of text "is" "and" , character's names etc. at around the same time. I encouraged this, as she initiated it and we made a game of it which she would play for hours (I usually got bored first!). Then, within the space of about 2 weeks aged 3 1/2 she went from playing with words and recoginising a few to being able to read simple books.

So I didn't teach her exactly, but in retrospect I can see how the things we did encouraged it to happen. She seemed to learn in much the same way as they mysteriously learn to speak English.

If your dd is wanting to write she will probably be starting to read naturally anyway.

greythorne, like your dd, ds loved being read to and would bring me endless books to read. Then one day he suddenly started bringing much much simpler books than he had been enjoying (literally one word per page or at most a very basic sentence) and 'reading' them to me - of course it was entirely obvious what the word on each page should be as there was a large picture to go with it and the slightly more complex ones were easy enough to memorise so I initially thought that's what he was doing. Shortly after though he started picking out words from novels I was reading (ie scanning a densely typed adult text for words he recognised) and that was when I realised he had been paying close attention to the words in his books rather than the pictures. After that whenever I read to him I ran my finger along the lines as I read so he could follow the words and he picked it up very quickly.

For my DS, a bit of both. He was 4 in October and is practically begging to be taught - but everyone is telling me to leave him alone.

I work full time and he is at nursery where they really shy away from anything that could be construed as adult led teaching that by the time I pick him up he is brimming with questions and I'm exhausted from answering them!!

Personally I don't believe that a child can magically teach themselves to read - they will have to pick up an understanding of what sound letters make from somewhere. I think that the children who develop fast at a young age are those who have an inquisitive mind and want to know and understand.

I am so frustrated that my son is not "allowed" to explore his own questions.

My DD always loved books and we read to her a lot, but did appear to 'teach herself' to read. She was pointing out simple words linked to pictures before she started school (from about 3), and when we saw her reception teacher after 5 weeks at school we were told off for 'teaching her to read' before she started school! She read the whole infant reading scheme in reception and then read library books for years 1 and 2.

My DD always loved books and we read to her a lot, but did appear to 'teach herself' to read. She was pointing out simple words linked to pictures before she started school (from about 3), and when we saw her reception teacher after 5 weeks at school we were told off for 'teaching her to read' before she started school! She read the whole infant reading scheme in reception and then read library books for years 1 and 2.

Mine aren't reading yet, but I can tell you my experience.

My mum didn't really teach me as such - she certainly never researched how to do it or anything. She encouraged me a lot though, and I basically started by memorising stories. She hadn't heard of phonics until recently, so I think I just worked out the rules subconsciously IYSWIM. I was a free reader when starting yrR and just sat out of phonics sessions, the teacher was really supportive about it.

I am interested in this - DD is 3.7, and is starting to really get into trying to write, read and spell. I certainly don't want to tell her "no you can't learn until you start school" (September) - but I don't want to go all crazy with coaching her etc!

We are just building little games into our day like sounding out letters - e.g. She loves Dora, and DH told her the sounds of the word map, and that we put them together to say it properly.

"I work full time and he is at nursery where they really shy away from anything that could be construed as adult led teaching that by the time I pick him up he is brimming with questions and I'm exhausted from answering them!!"

Wow, I am so unimpressed with that nursery.

The whole point of child led learning is that if they want to do something, you do it! Right?! Even if that is a more teacher led activity, it's the child who initiated it.

In schools were I am they don't do reading really until year one (5- 6)My DD could spell out words and write her name,read her name etc,before reception age,and I had told her the alphabet and shown her words etc.With DD2 I have doen none of this at all and she can also write her name and read it,and knows some of her letters,she is three,and has just picked it up from listening to DD1 i imagine.So I think if they are ready and interested they do just pick it up if they are being read to a lot,or around older children.I also think if they don't read early it really doesn't make a jot of difference in the end.

Out of my five children three could read before school. I didn't actively teach any of them but did read to them lots and share lots of books.
I did the same with the other two but they didn't learn to read so I think it depends on the child tbh.

Agree it depends on the child - I've read the 'normal' age to read is anywhere between 3 and 8, when the child is ready, and the later readers generally catch up quickly. They were just too busy exploring other things when they were 3.

Can't believe the typos in my post.That's what comes of typing while watching Holby.

DD is 4.4 and over the last six or eight months has apparently been teaching herself to read. It started with a lot of 'how do you spell X' questions as she's always liked writing letters (quite illegibly a lot of the time). So I would tell her and sound the letters out so she could see how they fitted together. And sometimes I'd have to say 'In Charlotte, CH says shhh' or whatever.

She can now read or at least recognise a lot of words, maybe a hundred or so, and sound out other simple ones which she will then reliably recognise in a different context. When she can't sound them out, she asks me and I have to often say 'yes, well, actually that GH doesn't make a sound in that word' or 'erm, sometimes OU says OW and sometimes it says OO' which is obviously a bit confusing but she does seem to remember and build on those hints and explanations.

But I haven't tried to teach her, just answered the questions as they came up. She's obviously not an exceptionally early reader but she is very much enjoying being able to decode the adult world or words, not least because it means she can work the V+ box without my input. This may be a mixed blessing.

So basically, what I'm saying is, just answer her questions and she will either teach herself and pick up the basics or she won't. Either way, it won't be a particular pointer of great intelligence or a lack of it. But if she's enjoying it, then why not?

I also learnt to read before school and my mother didn't have a clue about phonics (this was over forty years ago) so she just told me how to spell things with traditional letter names. It didn't slow me down I don't think. Equally, one of my brothers wasn't a fluent reader until he was 8 or so but it hasn't slowed him down either!

I don't actually know how dd learnt to read - she just did!

I think it was shortly before her fourth birthday. Personally, I wouldn't have pushed it before starting school, and I didn't make any effort to teach her. Obviously, though, I'd have answered questions if she had asked any, and if your dd is really keen, I can't see that it would do any harm.

Let your child be your guide, and don't worry too much about what everyone else is doing!

I would agree with Magic Mummy: let your child be the guide rather than worry about the opinions of teachers or other parents.

My mother (who was a YR teacher) taught me to read before I started school with 'Janet and John' books (I'm showing my age there!), but when she tried to do the same with my younger brother, he took the vocab flashcards out of her hands and made a road on which to drive his toy cars... In other words: some kids are ready to learn to read at a young age and others aren't!

My 8-year-old DD, who is listed by her school as G&T for literacy and drama (whatever that really means!), was free reading before she started school, by which I mean she was able to read adult non-fiction books or newspaper articles without assistance. Obviously, she didn't understand all of the vocabulary, but she was able to read the words and could look up those she didn't in a dictionary.

Although I did read to her quite a lot as a baby (we had no TV for many years while she was a small child, so we had to pass those long winter nights somehow!!), I made no particular effort to teach her. Essentially, she taught herself to read by memorising whole words.

From the age of about 18 months, she would sit on my knee as I read her a book (Paddington Bear and The Gruffalo were particular favourites, I recall!) and I would run my finger under each word as I said it. She had a pretty good memory and could very quickly memorize an entire book and recite it, and I think she just learned to recognise which words were which.

She went to a private Montessori nursery from age 2.5 where the teachers were wonderful, encouraging and nurturing all the children at whatever they happened to be good at. They soon identified that DD had an aptitude for reading and they would read with her there as well, although I don't know how formal that teaching was (if at all) as I never witnessed it and I wasn't keen for them to push her at such a young age - it was just because she enjoyed doing it. In fact, she still reads an awful lot now, although H.G. Wells is the current favourite!

Ultimately, I don't know that it matters when a child starts reading, as eventually they all catch up, but from my own experience it seems that children who are naturally able will just seem to teach themselves!

Aged about 3.75, DS pointed at a delivery truck as I overtook it and announced that it was a Tescos one. Once I had regained control of the car, I decided that he was probably ready to learn his letters. I bought a couple of alphabet books. (You can probably tell from this that I am a somewhat elderly Mum, who went to a very old fashioned primary school in her distant youth)

So, we worked through 'Big A, Little A', by Dr Seuss. DS then appeared to lose interest and I left it. Other than ever so casually following the line of text with my finger when I was reading him his stories at bed time.

He became remarkably adept with the remote control for the telly, and could usually find something age approriate to watch on our Tivo recorder, but his Dad is a techno fiend, and I thought it was just genetic.

Then he started P1, aged just 5 (we are in Scotland) and after a couple of weeks, his class teacher said to me, slightly accusingly 'Did you know your son can read?'.

'Oh, can he? So that is why he manages the Tivo recorder so well!' said I. Thus cementing my reputation as a totally inept Mother for the rest of his school career...

I think that I would wait until it happens naturally. Ds started reading labels on my tops before age 2. There was no stopping him although he wasn't encouraged (I felt that it was better to wait til age 6!). Now aged 3.5 he can read as well if not better than I can. He reads upside down and back-to-front when he can't be bothered to turn a book the right-way round. I think that a genuine interest comes from them.

I taught my youngest quite methodically, when she was about 3 1/2 to 4. But I don't think I would have done if she wasn't clearly both ready and interested. Funnily enough her older brother didn't really take off with reading until later - about 5-6 I think. But then he suddenly "got it" and ended up a very advanced and enthusiastic reader.

There's no rule - if you get the impression she's ready, you're probably right. Kids have a way of telling us what is the right learning experience for them, by what they naturally spend time doing and ask questions about. I think one of the biggest problems of all educational dogmas, both traditional and alternative, is the idea that there's a single "right age" for things to be learnt.

I suppose I used "synthetic phonics", though TBH I didn't even know till afterwards that it was called that. It's the way everyone learnt to read when I was young and just seemed like common sense to me. Words are made out of letters, which MOSTLY sound a particular, regular way. So you learn the sounds of the letters, then learn putting them together into the simplest short words, then longer ones. Eventually you learn to recognise the words as units without taking them apart. Along the way you learn the many exceptions by rote. You have fun playing with rhymes, homophones, onomatopoeia etc. You find stories your kid enjoys and motivate them to want to work things out.

Really I don't understand why several generations of wierd conflicting educational orthodoxies tried to pretend that this was so complicated.

My oldest child was read to constantly more or less from birth. He was about two when he started pointing to letters on road signs and so on; I'd make the sound, and he'd remember it after one go (he has that kind of memory). Like Confidence, I was using synthetic phonics without knowing it. At almost three, my son was asking me why Asda was spelt "asda" when it ended with a 'duh' sound. He's nearly nine, and while his reading is no longer streets ahead of his classmates', his general knowledge (gained largely from five years of solid reading!) is outstanding.

He could read fluently long before Reception, and it was not a problem once he started school (they just gave him extra/more challenging stuff to read!) In our case, it was very much a two-way thing: he was interested, I 'taught' him, he was more interested, I 'taught' him more - and so on. My others weren't so interested, and couldn't read much before they started school.

My DS could recognise/read 'dog' age 18mo. I didn't teach him anything, he just played with letter blocks and read it out to me one day after putting them together! I didn't push him, having come from a pushy-parent home and hated it. He went to Reception knowing all his letters but not all the phonics sounds, and by June was free-reading. Now in Y1 he is reading at Y3/4 level.

My DD is 3.5 and will go to school in September. Her letter knowledge is more erratic (unlike her bro at the same age) BUT yesterday came up to me and read 5-6 words (duck, pig, cat etc) perfectly, sounding them all out. She is obsessed with how things are spelt and asks me to spell everything, and tries to read everything (more or less successfully). Will be interesting where she will be in a year's time, as her temperament is so different to DS and she won't be 'taught'.

Fun times ahead ;)

(I could free-read at 3, and was reading @ 15y level when 7, but the only advantage it gave me was enjoying lots and lots and LOTS of lovely books throughout my life! I don't believe in pushing kids to read ahead of their natural curiosity, as it is counterproductive. I volunteer in my son's school, reading with the kids).

DS2 could read not long after turning 4. I'm not entirely sure how TBH, I certainly didn't teach him as I had given up on that after getting very stressed trying to teach DS1 at that age and getting nowhere! Nursery school didn't teach him either. I think he probably picked up a lot from listening to DS1 and just figured it out. By the time he was 5 he could read in two languages (we are bilingual). Some kids do just seem to figure it out. He is now nearly 7 and is still ahead of most of his class at reading, however a lot are catching up. No doubt by the time they go to secondary school there won't be any difference at all, but as long as he still continues to love reading as he does now then that doesn't matter, does it?

We used the 'Jolly Phonics' materials from the Early Learning Centre to help our younger two to recognise letter sounds because we knew they would be doing the same scheme in the Reception class at our local primary.
And read to them a lot, of course.

One could read fluently at age 4 whilst the other did not take off with his reading until he was 6 and had been in school for two!

Talking of the French system, I was an au-pair in France years ago and was surprised that the little girl was just starting primary school at age 6 (after being in Maternelle nursery school from age 3). She had not learned to read, but after half a term she was reading fluently because she was so ready to learn.

I think if you read to them and show them letter sounds, they will learn if they are ready.