hello and some advice

[PigsMightFly]

My Daughter has been put down in the gifted and talented spectrum by her Preschool's end of year assessments. The preschool was very keen to speak to the new school about my Daughter and when a representative didn't show up at a transition meeting duly contacted them to pass on the info about her. Someone was coming anyway to see all the preschools so she came, but the preschool was fantastic, they had information to share and were committed to passing it on.

At the parents presentation with the head he made a big hoo ha about if you suspect your child is G&T or Sen that you had to write it in a special needs column next to your child's name on the lists (in plain view of everyone) and they would contact the preschools and assess them on starting school. He didn't explain what they would do about it or anything, and I didn't want to ask in public so didn't find out. He also made a big song and dance about all parents thinking that their child is a genius, and that only the exceptional ones he was talking about and so on. He made a big joke of it and everyone laughed along and nodded and I just squirmed in my seat, thinking to myself I hope I haven't got this wrong, and maybe I should let them discover for themselves etc etc. It made me feel as though if I go to the school with concerns etc they will just think I'm some delusional parent.

We had suspected that she was gifted since she was small so have done a bit of research for about three years now and have been in contact with CHI, which I no longer see online anymore. I spoke on a couple of occassions to a wonderful lady with so much warmth and enthusiasm and she gave me some great advice that I didn't adhere to unfortunately but that's another story.

I had gathered that the gifted scheme was now over with so didn't expect the school to be asking this question, just thought it would be an inevitable battle when I got there if I was prepared to take it on if she wasn't being challenged enough. (I'm very unconfrontational and terminally shy and unfortunately so is my OH).

We had to go for a familiarisation session, where I spoke to her teacher. This ended better than it started, with the teacher treating me like a pushy parent to begin with when I asked for some more sheets of keywords as the Preschool had suggested getting the ones that the school will be using if possible as she had gone through the first four of theirs taken from the infant school and didn't want to give her anymore as the new school might have another system. Anyway I thought this was a perfectly acceptable request but no the teacher got a bit defensive. I tried to explain about DD and what she is doing at the moment and what the preschool says and then it eventually started taking a better turn. I really hope I haven't alienated DD's first teacher! Anyway we go back in September before school starts to have a proper 'interview' as they call it with the teacher. The teacher did suggest that we had the option of private school also to which I was incredulous to as that would never be possible financially or that DD could have completely different work set out for her. This is a new one on me, I had read before of skipping classes and also extension work alongside class work etc. Reading some of the posts on this forum, I'm thinking this is the IEP that some refer to, is that correct? Does this work well as DD will definitely feel as though she is missing out if the class is doing something she deems to be more fun.

Not knowing what to expect and how to go about things I'm so glad I found this forum. My Daughter is fun loving and really can slip under the net undetected. Her intelligence is unmistakable but the true extent of what she is capable of is not always plain to see unless explored as she is quite happy to hide her light under a bushel. Her choice of friends is ALWAYS boys too, the boys that are usually running around and too young mentally to cooperate fully yet so this may not help matters. I'm already seeing that I have noone to talk to about her and it's becoming quite a lonely thing, not being able to talk about her to friends with children of a similar age.

But anyway any advice would be good as to what to expect or how to go about things with the school. I am teaching her things at home now in the hols, as she wakes at night if not mentally stimulated in the day. I have another daughter (20 months), not following along the same lines, a normal average child and am trying desperately to keep the time balance fair between them.

Better stop now, just probably had too much on mind to let out.

Can you give an idea of her current capabilities?

I do think unless she is totally off the scale, you might be best served waiting and seeing for a few weeks after she starts.

And pinpointing what exactly it is you are worried about:

• that she'll get bored (deeply unlikely in a reception class as they have so much fun)
• that she won't progress (possible but fairly unlikely as truly highly intelligent children seem to move along on their own)
• that your teacher won't recognise her intelligence?

I wouldn't say she was off the scale, but in my view it's more toward the conventional gifted rather than just bright top 10%. I really don't want to turn this into my kid can do this that and the other thread.

There are a few worries that are niggling at me really.

She is very sensitive to getting things wrong. This means that she won't try something if there is any chance that she will not be able to do it. This means a lot of encouragement is needed to get her to try so I'm thinking that if the teacher doesn't recognise this she will just assume she can't do it and won't challenge her. By the way it's nothing to do with me at all, I praise for effort!

She didn't show what she can do in preschool, so they were none the wiser to begin with until I started teaching her a few things. It was obvious to them that she was bright, that's easy enough to see as she is quite articulate. Her nursery report on leaving there was just ridiculous. It was like she was a totally different child, and she was there for two years. On going to Preschool I had the chat with the teacher about the nursery etc and I get the impression that on seeing my daughter she thought that I must be delusional I think, it was obvious that she's quite capable and bright but that's about it she thought.

When she is with other kids she plays around a lot so she is never going to be the child that sits still in a corner and looks studious. There was a girl like this in the preschool and the teachers would just marvel at her, and I was there to hear it. My DD was more able but the other kid gave a better impression of intelligence it seemed, and her parents had put a lot of legwork in over the last couple of year whereas we hadn't. When they recognised what DD was capable of and how quickly she learns it they started taking her aside and doing things with her, but before this they thought she was an average kid.

I'm hoping that the preschool report will count for something, BUT they did warn me that the school WILL query the results, as they did this last year for someone who had a mark just above average in reading alone, and DD has exceptional marks across the board almost. The new teacher had not seen her results as yet, and kind of poo pooed the findings before I started telling her more about my child. She seemed to think that preschool reports can be used as a guide yes, but that they are quite often wrong etc, as the staff aren't qualified teachers, and they are nothing more than glorified playgroups etc. I told her this wasn't the case for DD's preschool as it's adjoined to a school, has a outstanding ofsted with qualified staff, and performs the same reports that the new school does in Reception, it wasn't just a written report, and anyway DD was doing reading and maths with the infant school teachers anyway for part of it so they were qualified teachers yes. My point is she can slip under the radar quite easily and that worries me. The beginning of reception is all about play yes, and I want her to do this as much as possible but also I would like her to progress too.

My other concerns at not being identified are that research seems to suggest that gifted children don't do particularly well in state schools left to their own devices, they need to be extended. They get bored and above all they don't want to be different so get very adept at blending in. I know it from personal experience, I was a gifted child, and a lazy one at that. I learnt pretty quickly that I didn't need to put much effort in to get good results and if anything hindered others, with my larking about, from working hard. I would just do things in class 5 mins before the teacher needed it and chat and laugh around with friends that genuinely needed time to do thier work. I was on higher level text books to my classmates in primary and higher sets in secondary but that was as far as extending me went. Unfortunately this was the case with my DH also, so I know kind of where I'm coming from here on a personal note too.

They are my two main concerns anyway.

Sorry, I am going to say this bluntly. MN is famous for being blunt and that is indeed what you get online (it's nothing personal :)):

You sound precious and pushy.
Whether or not your child is off the scale you really need to give the school a chance to see that she's like, in their own time.

And keep in mind that some kids are early developers rather than highly/extremely gifted, only time will tell.

A month or two of dossing and just getting used to school life will do your DD no harm, it will be nice that she only has to cope with the new regime rather than new regime + lots to learn.

Yes she may be so shy that she is easily overlooked, but her written work will belie her seeming ordinariness if she really is that advanced; teachers love bright kids, they love to develop all kids but of course they have a soft spot for those who excel and will especially encourage them. Give the teacher a while to get to know her and don't go in assuming that your child must be pushed from the get-go to do her best in the long term.

ps: I'm quite interested in the research you mentioned about G kids not doing well if left to their own devices. Can you link to something on that?

You can read posts by another poster who is very cynical about the state system ever being able to cater for highly+ Gifted kids, I think his posting name is DadAtLarge if you want to search for that.

I'd say that it's too early. Wait until she starts school and see what they say. With the best will in the world, nurseries have a high staff turnover so don't have the opportunity to assess children properly, children change very quickly aswell. Keep an eye on things at school though, if you find she's bored then tell them and take it from there

what books is she reading? normally they will let free readers access the later years bookshelves, but you will need to wait until they have carried out the usual beginning of school checks to sort out what her reading and comprehension level actually is (formally). i'm assuming she's on chapter books etc (horrid henry type stuff) rather than war and peace, so she'll probably just have to walk to yr2 on her own or with other free readers when it's her turn to change her reading books. (they don't usually do the tests immediately, so you'll have a couple of weeks of frustration before she starts bringing home reading books - just make sure you get to the library etc so she can carry on as normal).

other than that, i think it is best that you wait and see tbh - essentially as time goes on during the year more 'formal' type (yes, yes play-based blah) learning is put in place, and the more able children might be given spelling sheets to learn - they will have an idea of where dd needs to start on these as they will have gone through the key words (whatever they are called now) until she starts not to recognise them (whether that's yr 1,2,3,4, or the continuation sheets etc) so she should start at an appropriate level. again, they might start her alongside the rest of the class for a couple of weeks so that she is confident, but should differentiate fairly quickly.

maths is more concepts and play stuff to begin with - again she will have lots of opportunity to show what she understands in the setting, and so if they feel she is exceptional, they can set slightly more formal numberwork or move her up a year or two for an hour a day so that she is stretched a little.

honestly, don't stress. unless she's off the KS1 scale and it's an infant school, it won't be a problem. it's only an issue if she's working at the higher end of KS2 and it's only a r,1,2 setting. if it's a primary she'll be fine. even our infant school managed with gifted yr 1 and 2's by accessing the junior school stuff. there aren't many yr r's who haven't been hothoused that can't be stimulated by working a couple of years up. there are some. but not many.

fwiw i have always let schools discover my dcs for themselves. most are pretty adept and are reasonable at differentiating except for the off-the-scale.

what is she reading btw - you're being a bit cagey!

I really think you need to wait and let the reception teacher assess her. You are being vague about exactly what she can do.

I definitely think it is worth waiting a few weeks and seeing how things go. She needs to settle in to Reception and get the hang of the social side first.

A good teacher will be able to differentiate within the class, so she will be set appropriate work. Reading books can be fetched from higher classes, extension work set etc. In one way Learning through Play is very good on this count as the child can extend activities and projects to their own levels.

I agree that some children are early developers, so it may be that other children will catch up. You say that she is shy, in which case she will benefit from not having to work quite so hard at the academic side and being able to develop the social side. My eldest was bright when he started school and there was talk at one point of moving him up a year. But I felt strongly that although he was good academically, especially at maths, he was very shy and not very sporty. Staying within his peer group allowed him to develop all round, and by the time he finished Year 1 he was also one of the most confident and one of the best at sport. He also used to be very scared of getting things wrong, but as he gained confidence this improved too and he was more willing to try things out. If he had been pushed too hard at the beginning I don't think he would have gained so much confidence.

If she is really, really ahead it will soon become evident to her teacher, however shy she is. The teacher should be able to give her work to suit her level. Some children who are extremely ahead are given an IEP to ensure that their needs are being met. But there is plenty of time for all this in September!

BTW early reading etc doesn't necessarily indicate that they will do well later on. Some are late blossomers, and "position" within the class can be very fluid at this age. So it isn't really worth getting too het up about it (and I speak as someone who can quite easily get het up about it given half a chance!)

For what it's worth (trying not to boast), ds started school at 4 and he was reading the dictionary (oxford english). I just told them that he could read. He could also do long addition, he'd get a huge piece of wallpaper, write numbers all the way across it and add them all up. I just left them to it, they had no idea so I moved him to a private school. They did try though, I expect they head the 'ds/this child is very bright' lots, let them see it for themselves.

and if they don't, it's not the right setting.

It's also strangely satisfying to only say a little bit about them and then let the teacher find out for themselves - when they come to you and say oh "dc did x today" you can nod sagely and think "I told you so - see I am not just a deluded parent who thinks their kid is clever"

Agree with the idea that if the teacher really can't work out how bright your child is or get a shy child to come out of their shell enough to demonstrate what they can do, then something is wrong with the teacher/ school.
Whether they can actually respond appropriately is another matter.

Smart kids progress anyway in reception, they have fun and they are unlikely to be bored. To put it in perspective, ds could read simple sentences when he was 3/4 and was about to start school. I was het up about it for most of the year as they did nothing to respond to this. Yet he has zoomed through two years of the reading scheme since starting on their books just before Christmas, with absolutely no differentiation in class - the only thing they did was give him appropriate reading books to bring home. I doubt he could have gone much faster even if they'd say, sent him to year 1 a few times a week, and I am more bothered that he had a fab time in reception with his friends.

I agree that you need to wait and see and chill!

Hi Pigsmightfly look at the NAGC website they have a helpline & are great, very positive & understanding. This forum is a difficult place as it is open to anyone who wants to comment & can seem a little aggressive especially, maybe, to a shy person!I am about to post about my son & will brace myself for the replies - Good luck with your daughter my situation is similar & I have no idea what to do!