When is an IEP warranted - how far 'ahead' of the class would a dc need to be for it to be appropriate?

[ermnopecantthinkofanewname]

DD is going into year 1 and I'm a bit concerned she won't be taught at even vaguely her level based on what I've seen (and yes I know some of the others might catch up).

She is only a couple of years ahead not five or six like some dcs on here.

How far ahead warrants an IEP, or does she just have to lump it?

She probably won't complain about boredom as she is a daydreamer so won't get bored but she is unlikely to progress. I don't mind if she doesn't move along in fifth gear as she's little but third would be nice.

Hi there, ieps are given to children who are struggling, unless there are additional issues (usually aspergers ime with gifted children).
You need to make enquiries regarding the school's approach to gifted and talented children.

I understand from on here that sometimes they are given to 'g and t' kids where there is a need for individual approach.

Planning and teaching should cater for G&T section of the class. One of my class has an IEP for G&T but he's working at level 7 maths in a Y5 class. Others in my top group are level 5, no IEPs but planned for.

Well I guess that's the core of my OP - how far ahead do they have to be for normal differentiation/ planning to not really cover things?

That's interesting - I'd be very interested to understand how the iep for g&t came into being, since my understanding was that ieps are for children on the SEN register, one possible factor under the code of practice being that they have greater difficulty learning or making progress than other children.

Please note this is not a criticism, but an exploration as I'd like to find out more. Thanks

I have 5 IEPs in my class for learning needs that are for SEN and one for an ASD child.
I don't think it's common practice now to have an IEP for G&T child, but I was writing them 15 years ago in a different LEA for a gifted child.
You differentiate according to your class, so every lesson I plan has SEN, LA, MA, HA and Extension tasks. 5 levels of differentiation.
It's just that this child falls off the chart in maths and I've had to access completely different resources for him.

It is ppossible to have an IEP for G&T but IME it is not common. Provision for G&T is normally done through the normal differentiated lesson planning a teacher does.

I would imagine a child would have to be working at several years ahead of their chronological age in order to get an IEP and possible for those G and/or T skills to be affecting his or her learning.

Thank you Goblinchild - wish you were working in my school!

Have you used dynamo maths at all? I'm a big fan of numicon but am attracted to the dyscalculic support aspect of dynamo - and the 'parent portal' online.

Thanks hula - crosspost.

I've been in sen for many years, am on my 2nd masters in the area. I'm always seeking to improve practice. The only iep I've ever written for g&t was a multiple exceptionality for aspergers and certainly had a different approach for the social and learning skills that were required.

I think IEPs for gitedness are rare and you have to be quite exceptional. A friends daughter has one for literacy and is probably about 5 years ahead (no other special needs). My daughter has one and is working several years ahead in Maths and English (no other special needs). Depending on the school cohort working two years ahead may put your daughter in the top 10% and she may be put on the school's G&T register.

I think IEPs for gitedness are rare and you have to be quite exceptional. A friends daughter has one for literacy and is probably about 5 years ahead (no other special needs). My daughter has one and is working several years ahead in Maths and English (no other special needs). Depending on the school cohort working two years ahead may put your daughter in the top 10% and she may be put on the school's G&T register.

Woops.
I would add that it is a worry and I believe that it takes a very good teacher to really challenge the top group and beyond in a class.

She is currently maybe a year/ four or so terms ahead of the next children along (two years ahead of the average I'd say). So definitely not off the scale but noticeably different. All of this is not that precise of course.

Sounds like it wouldn't be enough for an IEP to be necessary then. I hope that other children will catch up if they have a leap in learning as then the top groups will be more at her level.

I've looked at the standard yr1 National Curriculum stuff and it would not be anything new at all.

The teacher should plan extension work for your DD that stretches her, and if she's a year or so ahead, that's still within normal parameters.
You could keep an eye on how interested and stimulated she is next year, and give the teacher some positive encouragement to keep thinking of your daughter's needs.
The current problem with G&T is it's defined as the top 10%, whereas in most cases it's just the far end of the normality bell curve.
When I started teaching G&T meant exactly that. I'm in my third decade teaching and I've actually taught 4 truly gifted in my career so far. The rest are just very bright and able.

It is within normal parameters and in an average class I'd expect there to be a couple of other children the same but the thing is there aren't in this class.

So to clarify she's probably two years ahead of what they do in class and a year ahead or more of the top group as they seem quite a homogenous class. This is where I wonder whether a 2 or 3 class entry school might have been better where the groups are sometimes across classes - more likely to be others similar.

But as you say I will keep an eye on things. She seems to learn much more quickly than typical children so I fear she will end year 1 more ahead than she is now but who knows. This is what has happened this year - she has covered seven book bands in two and a half terms. But I know development and learning can be stop start. Will wait and see.

It's all semantics goblin. There isn't really a cut-off for normal, so in reality even extreme giftedness is normal but just extremely rare so please don't say these children aren't gifted they're just normal or it implies that some very able children are not normal which only goes to reinforce their 'freaky' stereotype. You say you've only met 4 truely gifted children in your career, but in the current definition of the word you have met many more. Who is to say what is 'truely gifted' and what isn't? I think what you are trying to say is that you've only met 4 children who you can't challenge easily in the normal teaching environment without accomodations due to their ability? If so, then the threshold for that measure of giftedness will depend on the ability of the teacher as well as raw intelligence of the child as well as (as the OP points out) the ability profile of the cohort.

OP I have no informed advice, I understand LEAs/schools vary in their willingness to issue IEPs for able children so the answer to your question probably depends where you live. Individual teachers also vary hugely in their ability to cater for the ability outliers. I would guess that an IEP probably isn't the way forward for you (I could easily be wrong), but you do need to keep talking to the school/teacher to ensure they are meeting your childs needs and think of ways you might challenge her outside school if necessary (eg music lessons). Unfortunately it doesn't always work to just let the school get on with it - you do sometimes need to go in and advocate for your child and/or make some outside provision yourself.

Thanks Pixie. I fear at this rate she will end up more like three or so years ahead soon.

It's not just reading fwiw, LOTS of other stuff - all the classic signs of being very intelligent rather than just bright (but not so very exceptionally gifted as in teaching herself three languages either like a few kids on here). She is like the 1 in a 100 or 200 or so kid not the 1 in 10,000 child.

Now that must be much more of a challenge.

I think she's very happy at home and at school too - with a balance of entertaining herself with her toys, playing board games etc and doing activities(by choice) such as learning French and sport.

It's more what goes on in school hours I'm looking at - I'll just keep an eye on it and see how it goes in year 1.

while she's happy at school things probably aren't going too badly wrong. She sounds as though she's developing skills to amuse herself with to an extent which is one of the first steps to being an independent learner. A bit of boredom doesn't hurt most people either, so if for example she's not learning anything new in maths it's not necessarily the end of the world. My ds probably had a similar ability profile to your dd but with a few others in the chort close in ability - I used to worry a bit about the level he was working at at school, but I needn't have done as he has ended up just fine and 'coasting' doesn't seem to have held him back. Of course that's not to say all children in that situation will be fine - some schools/teachers will do more or less than others off their own backs and different children will respond differently to different approaches.