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Original poster

fluoride drops - anyone use them?

56 replies

katierocket · 27/06/2003 21:57

Hi, thought that Jasper might be able to help with this one.

DS is 20 months old - took him to the dentist for the first time last week, check up for me really but just to get him used to it. We live in Manchester which is apparently one of the only places in UK that doesn't have fluoride in the water. Anyway, he was saying I should get fluoride drops from the chemist to put in his food but when I asked chemist she said they were only available for children 3+ years.

has he advise me wrongly? anyone else know anything about this? I did have a look at a couple of other threads but none mentioned this specifically.

OP posts:
janh · 01/07/2003 11:35

Aquafresh has 1350 ppm - it never occurred to me to look before, mears!

DS2 puts a petit-pois-sized blob on his brush so he doesn't get too much...

mears · 01/07/2003 19:14

Colgate Total has 1450ppm - imagine that! Only just looked.

sibble · 01/07/2003 19:50

Have been following this thread with interest as we are on tank water (i.e. rain water basically) so definately no fluoride. Have been under pressure to start DS (3 years) on fluoride tablets but have resisted. He never rinses after brushing, which he would do every 5 mins if given half the chance, have had to hide tooth paste. Am using "milk teeth", should I be using adult toothpaste on hm at this age? Will read suggested sites at weekend when not at work.

robinw · 01/07/2003 22:46

message withdrawn

jasper · 01/07/2003 22:55

Sofiames the overly minty taste of toothpaste is one of my bugbears. I have had success with my kids using Punch and Judy toothpaste , has a mild strawberry flavour and you can get it in independant chemists. F level is 1000ppm which is the current recommended guidline for use in kids as well as adults.(a bit expensive however)

Robinw sorry to assume you knew what I was talking about. "Adult" toothpaste refers to Fluoride levels of 1000ppm and above. The range is between 1000( most common) and 1500 which is considered high.
As for "we dealt with"...etc. I recall in
fact we disagreed so lets leave it at that. Like you I am a great fan of the published study as one method of assimilating information
but may I tactfully suggest that 15+ years of day to day hands on experience lends an
additional perspective which cannot be gained by reading alone. Additionally It is rarely appropriate to cite one abstract and say " so this proves..."
Limeback's comments on F's best effects being topical is completely standard stuff, nothing new here, and in fact this corroborates the current (VERY recent) guidelines which you seem determined not to believe about using adult paste under supervision. The idea is to blitz the tooth surface repeatedly ( twice daily) with the optimum concentration of F for the best effects. The tooth surface constantly undergoes a process of mineralisation (good) and demineralisation (bad) so REPEATED F applications at a decent therapeutic dose are the thing.

mears · 01/07/2003 23:01

I think there is evidence and there is evidence IYKWIM. Some evidence does not stand up to scrutiny once you get into the nitty gritty. For example in my field there has been a trial recently involving vaginal breech births. On face value, the trial demonstrated that caesareans were the safer route because the trial had to be abandoned because of poor outcomes with vaginal births. On closer scrutiny it is evident that vaginal births were being done by obstetricians who were not experienced. Breech babies were not being allowed to deliver 'naturally, but were being extracted by the doctor. The outcomes were poor because of technique amongst other reasons.
Perhaps jasper has more reliable evidence and therefore bases decisions on that.

mears · 01/07/2003 23:02

hello jasper - I see you can stick up for yourself quite adequately

jasper · 01/07/2003 23:11

Nothing mean at all I completely stand by that. The funny thing is that what I wrote was a paraphrase from the editor's comments in an issue of the British Dental Journal on exactly the subject of fluoride!Yet another study had shown it to be safe , but the anti fluoride brigade were having none of it.
However I shoud add if you are searching for my previous posts in an attempt to discredit my current ones you have far too much time on your hands

I don't recall saying I don't believe any study saying rinsing wasn't bad for you. Scroll down if you want to see what I actually said, save me repeating it.

I have not personally met any professionals who think their opinion is more important than evidence, though doubtless some exist.

Most professionals I know take a critical view of evidence and assimilate it along with their professional hands on experience in an attempt to do the best possible job they can.I am sorry if your exerience has been otherwise, as I understand you have crossed swords with doctors, teachers, dentists, midwives...

jasper · 01/07/2003 23:25

Thank you mears. That is exactly the type of thing I am talking about.When you are actually doing a particular job day in day out you are aware of the kind of variables that are not always accountable for in a study.
Incidentally I don't think not supervising bedtime brushing qualifies you as a major league neglectful mother on the tooth front of the kind I had in mind

mears · 01/07/2003 23:29

Dental appointment next week. I'll report back on neglect aspect then

robinw · 01/07/2003 23:31

message withdrawn

jasper · 01/07/2003 23:32

Sibble and Katierocket, I would step up to adult toothpaste and not bother with drops because fluoride's best effects are the topical (ie when applied to a the tooth surface)ones.
And keep hiding the tube

robinw · 01/07/2003 23:37

message withdrawn

jasper · 01/07/2003 23:45

Perhaps while you are in stalker mode you should reread my posts a little more carefully and I am confident you will find me quite consistent.

I think proper use of the internet is just exactly the point I have been labouring with regard to those doing a job day in day out having an additional perspective that cannot possibly be gained by an eager and time rich websurfer.

mears · 01/07/2003 23:50

Nope - that trial is quoted left, right and centre. Even peer reviewd trials get through the net. It takes people with an opposing view to get right down to the bare bones of the evidence and point out the flaws. The Bristol trial is another renowned bit of research into obstetrics in the management of third stage of labour. The results showed that women should have active management of the third stage otr risk greater blood loss at delivery. It was published in the Lancet and was quoted as the reason why women were advised to have a managed third stage of labour instead of physiological. Once published it was picked to pieces because it was evident that the midwives involved did not have the skills to manage the third stage physiologically therefore more women had greater blood loss. The whole point of research is that more questions are raised and someone else attempts to answer them reducing the variables as they go along. a never ending process really IMO.

jasper · 01/07/2003 23:51

They are not my views they are the views of the leading professors of child dental health I have spoken to in the past few weeks, but I appreciate that might not be a source you see as valid and if so that's fine please do stick to surfing the net as the source of all truth.

mears · 02/07/2003 00:01

There are certain times that I base my judgements on pure gut instict because the evidence is conflicting. I do not give fluoride to my children in any other form than toothpaste and I will not subject them to a second MMR injection. I will not get a flu jab because I have never had the flu and therefore believe my immune system is adequate. I have known people personally who have sufferred adverse side effects to the flu jab, but as a healthcare worker, I am advised to have it. When I get a 'bee in my bonnet', I am hard to convince. For a while my children were not givenm drinks with added sweetners. That has been relaxed a bit lately because they keep nicking my diet coke. Despite having drinks with sugar in them, their teeth are faring fine. To me formula milk is almost poison ( please don't be offended anyone), but for others it is a godsend. We all make our decisions on our own evidence. Here endeth the lesson according to mears
ps can you tell I am on the wine?

jasper · 02/07/2003 00:24

Mears do you have a double blind randomised trial to back up your evidence re. the effects of the wine or are you relying on your own experience??

mears · 02/07/2003 00:28

LOL. jasper

JJ · 02/07/2003 05:26

I'm just bursting in here with nothing new to say and nothing really to contribute. Just a thanks to Jasper for the info on the adult toothpastes being ok for kids -- we've been travelling without children's toothpaste (as a result of an improper mother) so knowing that mine was ok for them was great.

Any suggestions for drug store bleachings? (Not to hijack the thread or anything..) I'm going to try one... let me know if there's anything you want tested. And that I can buy in rural Alabama.

Can we start referring to individual studies as "points of darkness"?

robinw · 02/07/2003 07:20

message withdrawn

janh · 02/07/2003 09:03

Clean hands are WRONG?

jasper, I have a massively-filled-should-be-crowned-really-but-I-am-chicken molar which is v sensitive to cold - my dentist has recommended brushing with Durophat 2800ppm and not rinsing. It doesn't seem to make any difference though, possibly because there is very little actual tooth left, but is it something you would advise? (Just curious.)

jasper · 03/07/2003 23:10

Janh,
Yes would also recommend this; might take a couple of weeeks to take effect but if it makes no difference you might need root filling and / or crown. Don't be afraid

jasper · 03/07/2003 23:19

Robinw I am not sure how many times it is helpful to say this but I will give it a final whirl .
I am NOT stating MY professional opinion but that of the professors of children's dentistry with whom I have been in contact in very recent months.

Hope this clarifies.

jasper · 03/07/2003 23:43

JJ glad you got your little 'un sorted out.

For anyone who's interested here's a link to a piece comparing high and low fluoride toothpastes
And if you can't be bothered (who can??) here's the conclusion (this is from April 2003 )

"250ppm Fluoride dentifrice was not as effective in caries prevention in the permanamt dentition as dentifrice containing 1000ppm or more.
More studies have to be carried out to test the anticaries efficacy of 500 against 1000ppm and above"