How to make an alcoholic realise they have a problem

[racmac]

Well thats it really.

I dont understand how they justify in their own mind that they dont have a drink problem but choose to hide the bottles that they drink - surely if they know they are hiding them they know they have a problem otherwise be open about it.

How do you get them help if they wont admit they have a problem?

Can the Dr's or any other services do anything if they refuse to accept they have a problem?

Sad to say I think you can't make addicts see they have a problem. It's a realisation they have to reach themselves.

its an illness.they have 2 come 2 term with.as long as they are not a danger 2 any 1 else.abusive hurt any 1.u would also have 2 get them 2 see a doc and they would avoid that unless they really was at rock bottom. xx

you can't they have to come to terms with it.

there is a support group for families and friends of alcoholics. i think perhaps this would help you.

Al-anon, look it up on google ,sorry i dont know how to do link things ,
I to ask myself the same question and have posted only a few weeks back about a loved one with a drink problem , who is in denial

i have to except i cant do anything for that person unless they want to , its a hard as when they are drinking and drunk they know and have admitted to me in not so many words they have a problem , but the next time i mentioned it , they had no recoglection of the conversation and got very defensive and in denial ... etc ..etc ..

so what am i to do

sorry ambushing your thread ...

iwish you luck xx

As others have said, until the alcoholic accepts that they do have a problem, nobody will be able to help them. Sadly even when they do realise that their drinking is out of control, there's no guarantee that they will stop for good. Alcoholics Anonymous' own research shows that over 90% of their members don't stay sober, and they're alcoholics who are aware enough of their problem to actually get help.

Ultimately, it's pointless listening to what an alcoholic says about their drinking. And that goes double if they're not stone-cold sober when they're saying it. The only thing that matters is what they do. An alcoholic who talks about them maybe having a problem but who's still drinking, is just an active alcoholic. An alcoholic who occasionally attends AA but hasn't stopped drinking, is just an active alcoholic. An active alcoholic will do anything they feel they have to do to maintain their addiction.

There's a book called "Getting Them Sober" (example chapter here that's well worth reading) that I've heard is very good. I also always recommend "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie as it's one that I found very helpful when I was dealing with my alcoholic ex.

You can't stop an alcoholic drinking. What you can do is find ways to ensure that their drinking doesn't ruin your life.

So you just have to sit back and watch them destroy their families life - kill themselves and do nothing?

Its so frustrating and soul destroying watching a person wallow in self pity, destroy everything thats good and they cant see what they are doing to themselves

mumof2000 - its fine ambush away

Racmac, you are not in control of another person, you do not own the person, whoever it is. If s/he is actually dangerous to others ie violent, s/he can be locked up, but otherwise we have to accept people's right to do what they want with their own bodies/lives. What you can do is remove yourself and vulnerable others from the situation (if this is your partner, throw him/her out of the house or take the DC and leave yourself).

But its so terrible to watch that person make terrible choices and destroy their own lives and be able to do nothing to help/stop them. You cant walk away from people you love - this person is not violent/ aggressive or anything but is killing himself

Its not my dh thank goodness.

Racmac, I really feel for you.

My mum is an alcoholic. I have tried for about 10 years (although I am pretty sure it has gone on for way longer than that) to supportively guide her to services . She is a highly functional alcoholic, holding down a job etc. But she would so often be slurring at strange times when it was 'safe' for her to do so (ie when not working or knowing she was driving).
It took confronting her supportively but vigourously when she was meant to be helping me look after my DCs when my DS had just come out of hospital after being very ill. I caught her drinking vodka. I was so upset as she wasnt in a fit state to help had there been an emergency.
Even after that she continued drinking that at my brothers wedding a few weeks later she was a wreck and my SIL finds it hard to forgive her for being so dreadful.

It was only after that 'gutter moment' that she seems to have stopped drinkning. She seems to have clarity now but it has taken years for her to open up and accept she has a problem. She has been sober now for 8 months, for now.

All I can say is you can tell this friend you think they have a problem, give them a leaflet from the AA and lots of support. But unfortunately it is up to them whether they think they have a problem. As I said, it took my mum 10 years of us all distancing and agonising over her.

Best wishes. xx

you can't

and even if you force them, they won't get better unless they want to make the effort

you're not walking away. What you're doing is you are THERE when they are ready. That's all you can do.

Agree, you can't. It may or may not hit them before it's too late, literally. Some people have to reach rock bottom especially if they drink and manage to hold down a job, relationship etc.

My brother was arrested for drink driving 4 x over the limit and faced a possible jail term. It was only then that he realised he had a problem and admitted he had been hiding drink both at home and at work (and in his car). His GP put him on a supervised detox programme and told him he was an alcoholic. Still waiting to find out if his liver is shot.

I know what you mean about hiding the bottles - surely that must mean they know it's wrong? It must be like someone with an eating disorder who thinks they're overweight when the opposite is true. I don't suppose being half pickled all the time helps to see things clearly either. I guess alcoholics genuinely think that other people are barking up the wrong tree. I don't know.

a lot of it is shame I think zoogs. Not wanting people to find out because they know they'll be put under pressure to stop. Not wanting people to figure out there's something wrong with them. Perhaps not even being able to admit it to themselves - it's a HUGE thing to admit I think (to yourself) that you have lost control . Not easy I guess.

alcoholics v good at hiding bottles - I guess it's all part of the deception (which is a big part of addiction I suppose )

Yes, it is awful to see someone else make what you feel are bad choices. But they are free to choose how they live their lives. We're not gods - we don't have the right to impose our view of what choices they should be making on them. Really understanding just how powerless we are over someone else's alcoholism is a hard thing to come to terms with and is something that Al-Anon can really help with.

What you can also do is be aware that it is very easy to unwittingly enable an alcoholic to continue with his/her alcoholism. Covering for them at work, buying them food when they've blown all their money on booze, clearing up their messes, making excuses to others for their behaviour etc etc etc. All these things help the alcoholic believe that their drinking isn't that bad and that its effects aren't that serious. Melody Beattie describes enabling as "doing something that someone else could or should be doing for themselves."

I believe that an alcoholic will stop drinking only if and when the fear of what they have lost and stand to still lose, exceeds the fear of how awful they think a sober life will be. Anything we do that unwittingly enables their alcoholism merely reduces their fear of what they stand to lose. In very real ways we can (again, unwittingly) be extending their alcoholism in trying to help them.

The sooner they hit bottom and face up to what they are doing with their lives, the sooner they'll do something about it. The more we cushion their landing, the longer that will take. Al-Anon talks a lot about "detachment with love", whereby you continue to love and care about someone but you take a big step back away from their alcoholism and its effects.

Snorbs - You seem to have a real insight into this.

I do understand that stepping back and allowing them to get on with it - but what happens when they never realise - my dad certainly never did - he drank and drank until the day he died (I think - i had no contact)

Do you allow them to have money to drink themselves stupid everynight or do you refuse them a penny?

What happens if they never realise? Then they experience the full consequences of their choices and die an alcoholic's death. I know that seems harsh and cold but the alternatives are no better.

Essentially, you as a by-stander have several choices. You can enable their alcoholism by living their lives for them and cleaning up their messes. That just allows their alcoholism to continue and ensures that you remain embroiled in the drama. Or you can act as the booze police, and have a go at them when they drink. That just gives them yet another excuse for drinking - "you'd drink, too, if you had the hassle I get!" - while also driving you nuts by forcing you to act as detective.

Or, you can leave their alcoholism to them to deal with and emotionally detach from their drinking. It reduces your emotional involvement (which can be huge) while also ensuring that you are not complicit in enabling their alcoholism to continue. It also brings them that bit closer to hitting bottom.

As for money, it would depend a lot on the situation. The only people I allow to have money are my children with pocket money. An adult will have their own money, whether that money is in the form of benefits or wages, surely? If so then what they do with that money is up to them. What I wouldn't do is bail them out.

Never allow them any money racmac. It is just facilitating them.
Snorbs has put it really well.

Is this person someone you are very close to? A brother?

not my family dhs - its destroying his family and it breaks my heart.

My dad was an alcoholic and destroyed his own life leaving behind his family to pick up the pieces and it wasnt pretty for those involved - i was too young to remember but it still had huge ramifactions

I think one of the biggest problems / questions in life is why people keep trying to change other people when clearly it doesn't work. I don't say this as someone who is above these sorts of issues. I too find myself doing these things often. It's easy enough for someone to say 'let them get on with it, you have to exercise tough love etc'...but the question is how to do that, when you have very strong hope (even if it's unjustified) that you will help them see what's best.

The thing is though, alcoholism (like all these sorts of problems) is a symptom & has a function. What I mean is, it has a reason to exist. It doesn't help things at all that it becomes an addiction and then there are physical reasons on top of everything else that it becomes necessary. So it's not just about someone doing something that's 'bad for them'. They do something which has a function in their lives & which (sadly) they feel is necessary in order to continue an existence they feel is comfortable / reliable / familiar to them. They can't just 'snap out of it', it doesn't work like that.

Ultimately there are 3 choices:

1. you can take distance & leave the relationship & let them get on with it
2. you can accept them for who they are & concentrate on other aspects of your relationship with them, leaving the drinking to them
3. you can try to change you (you'll fail most probably, which is a very sad truth).

Oops. Sorry- number 3 was you can try to change THEM...

It is very hard to sit back and watch a loved one basically destroy them selves ..
in my case a its my mum , she has many other health issues now which are caused by the long term abuse of alcohol , but she just cant see it , the sleeplessness, loss of appitite, depression , mood swings ,weight loss, skin , problems , bladder problems to name a few...
i feel so helpless but have to except , if she doesnt want the help i cant help her very sad ...and i feel for you Racmac i do ..
have you any family/friends to talk this through with also ?

x

In a sentence, racmac, you cannot make them realise they have a problem because the power of denial is far far stronger than anyone who is not an alcoholic can possibly imagine.

My EH is an active alcoholic. Below is a precis of what it is like living with active alcoholism and what you (should you be in the unfortunate situation that I was in) need to know/be aware of.

An awful lot of the mad behaviour that manifest itself during our married life can now be explained thanks to the help I got from AlAnon, which is for family and friends of anyone who is affected by the drinking habits of others - not to be confused with AA (main office no: 020 7403 0888-website is alanonuk.org.uk - though I think there's a new website). There is also Alateen for 12-17yr olds.

I also recognise my part in the mad behaviour as well; that was very very hard to accept because after all, I was not the one with the problem!! But I was suckered into appeasing him, bailing him out time and time again-either by buying alcohol so I could control how much he was drinking (how stupid was that?), giving him money 'cos he never seemed to have any, and then by taking on his responsibilities, and accepting more and more intolerable behaviour. He became obsessed with where his next drink was coming from and I became obsessed with his behaviour .

I had absolutely no idea - because by then I was a recluse, deeply in denial myself, not going out or seeing my friends because it was pride and self preservation from letting on to them how shit our lives were.

By the end, he drank at home - 24/7 when he lost his job and from then on I had 3 years of sheer hell. He's been in and out of hospital, has lost his brother and lost us, his family - and despite all this he still drinks . Just goes to show that despite all that, he still hasn't hit his rock bottom.....

But I (personally) cannot praise Al Anon enough - it helped me to get out of that pit, and to realise that there was absolutely nothing I could do about getting him out too - that was His responsibility, not mine.

I learnt to detach from the alcoholic behaviour, not from the person underneath it. And I learned to start looking after both myself & DD.

There are 2 threads going on, Support Thread for Partners of Addicts & To hide my Mini Bottles of Wine From DH. Sorry, have never tried to link up threads....

Hope that this helps/clarifies for anyone living with active alcoholism why you have to look after yourselves in all this. The alcoholic will always be ok because they will always manage to get that next drink - that is all they care about, above and beyond Anything.

You do need to let them come to their own rock bottom tbh to have any chance of success.Dp stopped drinking 18 yrs ago and before that tried several times for other people etc and it never worked.He says he just woke up one day and though 'enough' and has never looked back.Let the person know you will support them when the time comes but withdraw a bit while they are in the thick of it because nothing you say will make a blind bit of difference.HTH