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Circumcision

20 replies

nobby · 03/06/2003 15:02

I've been referred to a specialist by my GP who thinks that my ds (just 3) needs to be circumcised. He has an extremely tight foreskin and his penis blows up like a balloon when he wees. I don't have a problem with this (as a lot of men I know were circumcised when young and are happy with it) although I am, of course, concerned about him having a general anaesthetic and being in pain.

However, my friend's son is the same age with the same problem and has been told by her GP that they're going to leave him as he is for a yeatr or so as foreskins can loosen a lot as kids get older. Although he is prone to thrush.

Does anyone else have any experience with this?

OP posts:
nobby · 03/06/2003 17:29

Hello? Nobody got a circumcised child?

OP posts:
morocco · 03/06/2003 17:41

hi nobby
sorry - ds not circumcised yet but maybe in the future - just keeping the thread running and interested to see other peoples experiences. . .
maybe people are too scared to read it because it reminds them of the last rather long thread?
hope someone answers soon

nobby · 03/06/2003 17:44

Oh, the other thread must have been before my time - i'll look it up. cheers.

OP posts:
nobby · 03/06/2003 17:53

Found 3 threads and they were all pretty helpful.

OP posts:
Lil · 04/06/2003 10:26

A close friend of mine just had her 9 year old son circumcised after putting it off for years. She was so worried about the op. that she just hung on, and waited for it to loosen. But it didn't and instead he had lots of infections which lead to a lot of scar tissue. Consequently it was a relief when he did have it done. But at 9 its not funny. And my friend does wish she'd done it when he was younger.

Hope that helps!

nobby · 04/06/2003 14:15

It does. Thanks. Ds hasn't had an infection yet thanks goodness but i'm due no. 2 in November and would rather he got all the upset out of the way before the baby comes (or the poor lad really won't know what's hit him) or leave it till the baby's at least a year.

OP posts:
happycat · 04/06/2003 20:27

Nobby I'm going to go through the same thing soon I think.My sons foreskin is very tight he has just had an infection.He couldn't pull it back that far to put the cream on either.He seems to always have urine traped inside the foreskin.I am really worried.Is this a sign that he will need it done too?I don't know anything about children being circumcised.

nobby · 04/06/2003 21:24

Hi happycat. I think it's definitely a sign that you need your GP to look at it and see what they say. How old is he? On the earlier 3 threads (under 'health' the concensus seemed to be that if the foreskin doesn't loosen by the time they're 4 then they will need to be circumcised - but quite what this entails I don't know.

It seems to be really common though. I didn't realise that there was anything up with ds as his 3 best friends (the only other little boys I've seen without clothes) all have the same problem - so we all thought it was normal!

OP posts:
nobby · 04/06/2003 21:25

oops. didn't mean that smiley there..

OP posts:
Boe · 05/06/2003 08:35

I'd say the sooner the better - my partner needed his done but had such an old fashioned family that they did nothing about it - unfortunenately his 'first time' was not that enjoyable when it split and he ended up being rushed to hospital blood everywhere!! It caused him untold levels of embarrassement and pain and he was a bit weird about getting close to anyone physically for a very long time after that and had to see a counsellor!!

Another boyfriend of mine also had his done when he was 13 - he said that at that stage he had become quite attached to it and it felt like he had lost a part of him!!

To be honest - I do think it is a good thing to have done - I quite like it like that, I am a hygeine freak though and it is so much cleaner!! (Looks better too don't you think!!)

monkey · 05/06/2003 11:47

My son was circumcised yesterday. He's 4 in August. His foreskin couldn't be retracted at all and he had permanent infection inside which the specialist said would lead to long term damage and all sorts of problems. He said it wasn't urgent but should be done within the year. As it was inevitable in our case anyway, and as we're expecting another baby in a few months, we decided to have it done straight away.

Nobby & happycat, from what you've described, I'd be inclined not to rush into it. If the foreskin can be pulled back at all there is surely the possiblity of it loosening - my son's forskin couldn't be retracted at all. My other son also has a tight foreskin, but it can at least be pulled back a bit. Incidently, from what I've learned, unless you're specifically instructed to do so (eg putting cream on), you should not be pulling back little boys foreskins.

I was recently in contact, via mumsnet thread, with a journalist writing an article on this topic - maybe it's come out already ? - I think it was in Juniour magazine. Anyway, she mailed me this info she's received from a specialist in St Georges hospital, London.

consultant paediatric urologist in London who gave me tons of information.
She's very eminent. Her advice was categorical on this. I don't want to make
you any more anxious - I know it's already awful contemplating any procedure
on your son - however, I think if the roles were reversed I would want you
to give me this information, so I'll go ahead. The paed urologist (Miss Sue
Ann Boddy from St George's Hospital, London - contact given to me by the
British Medical Association as an expert on child circumcision) say this:
"There is never any reason to circumcise a boy under 5 years old" (any
medical reason).
She also said that "misdiagnosis is rife" and that GPs, paediatricians,
general surgeons may not be as up to date as a paediatric urologist. Her
advice to anyone in your situation was to make sure they see a paediatric
urologist before agreeing to any circumcision. If your specialist is one
then i'm sure it's fine (although Miss Boddy did say very clearly 'never
under 5' She also said that infections are common and 'normal' (ie.
redness, swelling) and treatable without an op.
There was a recent report in the British Medical Journal that also said that
misdiagnosis is common and they estimate thousands are having unnecessary
circs done each year.
Most of us are woefully ill-informed about penises. The notion that a
circumcised penis is easier to clean or more hygienic is, says Boddy
"nonsense". Your son's foreskin may not be fully-retractable (ie. you may
not be able to pull it right back) for up to ten years after his birth
(Boddy has seen perfectly healthy men as old as 20 with non-retractable
foreskins). What's more, you do not, she says, ever need to pull your son's
foreskin back and clean under it. In fact, she says, we should "just leave
it alone". She points out that boys (even young boys) touch and manipulate
their penises constantly and that although this may embarrass their mothers
it actually helps keep them clean by 'keeping things moving'.

Many pre-pubescent boys, says Boddy, are misdiagnosed with phimosis (a
condition in which the foreskin cannot be retracted , which is
physiological, i.e. normal, so not meant to be retracted) or balanitis
(infections under foreskin but can usually be cured with a bath or possibly
some antibiotics) If the balanitis causes scar tissue and the foreskin
becomes pathologically phimotic then circumcision may be required.

Boddy explains: "It is entirely normal for a boy's penis to balloon when
he pees. Tightness below the tip is also normal, or occasional redness."
Neither of these requires circumcision. What's more, a natural substance
known as "smegma" can cluster and swell in 'pearls' under the foreskin.
These can look a bit like pus when they emerge. "This is often confused with
balanitis" she says . Your GP may not be aware of this and may refer you to
a general surgeon who may not be aware of this either.

Boddy advises that if your doctor has diagnosed your son with balanitis or phimosis and says he should have a circumcision, you should "ask to see a
paediatric surgeon/paediatric urologist" before you agree. There is, she
adds, "virtually never any medical reason to circumcise a boy under five".

Hope this helps you.

If you want to know about the actual op, ds was in theatre for about 30 - 50 minutes. He had a light general, but mostly local anaesthetic. When he came round he was crying for a while, which is normal (but I still found it heartbreaking!) he cried for maybe half an hour, but then just gradually perked up. It was amazing really - he was brought from ot to his room at about 9.30. By 10.30 he was strating to sit up, and asking for a drink. By 11 he wanted to eat and by 12 he was allowed home as long as he'd done a wee. By the time he did this & he was checked again by the surgeon & the anaethetist & we'd got painkillers for him, we were ready to leave by 1. He was just like normal - running around, playing, you wouldn't have known he'd just had an op with ga. He only complained a bit a few minutes ago about a bit of pain, but didn't want any medecine. Kids are prety amazing aren't they - at what point do they develop this male habit of being totally unable to cope with any ache or pain??

Bozza · 05/06/2003 11:59

Monkey my DS (2.4) has already developed that male habit. He had an upset tummy the other week and just sat on me knee and moped the whole afternoon. BUT last Friday he had a GA for grommets and your description was very much how it was for him. He cried very loudly but still had his eyes closed and was throwing himself around. But I don't think he realised that he was supposed to be poorly and perked up once he'd eaten to the point of having a strop because when the fire alarm went off he wasn't allowed to go out and look at the fire engines.

Glad your DS is doing so well. Sometimes its so hard to know if you're making the right decision...

Davros · 05/06/2003 12:34

My son was circumcised as a baby. Father Jewish but I'm not so wanted him to be the same as Daddy but not have the religion or ritual. Went to private Dr and took 10 mins only local anaesthetic but that may not be possible for older child? I dreaded it but couldn't have been quicker, simpler and no bad after effects. Sorry though, don't know if this is totally irrelevant to specific situation.

ks · 05/06/2003 12:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

nobby · 05/06/2003 13:37

monkey -that was really interesting. My son's foreskin cannot be moved at all but he's had no infections, so I don't really know where i'm at. But once the consultant appointment does actually come through (still waiting ) I'll check if s/he is a paed urologist. And it gives me more to ask about at the time.

OP posts:
Jaybee · 05/06/2003 14:48

nobby - my ds had to be done when he was four - sounds as though he had the same problem as your ds. He had the op as a day patient - in and out on the same day, he cried for a while when he first came round and he didn't want to pee as,I have to admit, it looked awful - however, once he peed and he realised that it didn't hurt he was ok - we had a bit of a set back in that the wound got a bit infected and he had to have antibiotics - otherwise it was fine.
A colleague's ds has recently seen a consultant and they have been offered a couple of possible alternatives which are basically not quite a full circumcision - just had a quick look on the web and the only thing I can find is here

Jaybee · 05/06/2003 14:48

nobby - my ds had to be done when he was four - sounds as though he had the same problem as your ds. He had the op as a day patient - in and out on the same day, he cried for a while when he first came round and he didn't want to pee as,I have to admit, it looked awful - however, once he peed and he realised that it didn't hurt he was ok - we had a bit of a set back in that the wound got a bit infected and he had to have antibiotics - otherwise it was fine.
A colleague's ds has recently seen a consultant and they have been offered a couple of possible alternatives which are basically not quite a full circumcision - just had a quick look on the web and the only thing I can find is here

monkey · 05/06/2003 17:35

davros, the reason they used a general an. was because as a nearly 4 year old he'd be able to see and be aware of the op, which was considered much more potentially traumatic - most of the an. & therefore pain releif was local, the gen, more for his metal well-being. As a baby this isn't nec. as they're not so aware.

btw also, my son didn't have a full circumcision - the surgeon just took away 'what was necessary' so he still has a , or at least some, foreskin, and I'm told when he's older you wpon't be able to distinguish his from an uncircumcised penis. This was the recommendation of the surgeon, as it is post-operatively less painful & also when they're older they shouldn't have any foreskin-loss feelings and blame you and go and be rushing for reconstructions!

Best wishes to all you mums with penis problems! My son's problems were first discussed a couple of years ago & I'm glad it is finally over with, I'm glad that once the decision was made to operate we only had to wait a few weeks, and Thank God ds is ok. I know it's only a minor op, but it's hard isn't it, to put your child through something, to have to make such big decisions for someone else? Dh took ds in while I sorted out ds2 & took him to neighbour's - he commented that in our nearly 4 years of being parents, it was his biggest moment of being soley responsible & he felt the burden of responsibility keenly.

Anyway, glad the info can maybe of help to some of you, and that it might help you in your dealings with the medics, which can be daunting.

happycat · 05/06/2003 18:00

monkey just read your post and it has cleared alot up I too will ask to see a paediatric urologist.My son is nearly seven and the cream I got was from my G.P and was instructed to let him pull his own forskin back to apply it.It's a worry to me because when DH and I first started having sex his penis would bleed and he had to have a minnor operation to cut it back.So I have a feeling there is a problem and some sort of surgery will be needed.His grandad had the same problem too but DH parents didn't even tell him about it and burried their heads in the sand and let him find out for himself.We have a lot to think about.Doe's anyone know how the op affects a man's sexual sensations?

monkey · 06/06/2003 08:57

I'm deifinitely no expert in this! but if only a partial circumcision is done & the frenum?? is not cut or removed then I don't think it makes any difference. I was told if a full circumcision is done then the end of the penis is less sensitive (due to being rubbed on clothes ect) so may not ejaculate as quickly to begin with (however also been told the opposite - because it's exposed it's more sensitive & can be a problem with premature ejaculation) but this is in the 1st few times when lets face it, they're all over the place anyway! Anyway, my son's doc said that no matter what, with a bit of practice, there is no significant difference bwn a circumcised & uncircumcised penis.

btw, happycat, from what you say, it sounds like he wouldn't need a faull - radical circuncision anyway, just a bit of a snip snip to loosen up. Good you're looking after him though. The mind bogggles about how our parents & grandparents dealt with situations, doesn't it?

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