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Sorry Musukebba, last study for you I promise!

6 replies

pofacedandproud · 24/11/2009 22:45

here

This time with mice, this time squalene creating autoantibodies for lupus [which I have anyway] Very grateful for your insight if you can.

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Musukebba · 25/11/2009 08:01

Will have a look at full article a bit later if I get a chance.

pofacedandproud · 25/11/2009 08:30

Thanks Musukebba

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Musukebba · 25/11/2009 17:27

OK pofaced: I've had a look at the complete publication.

Firstly, the study was designed to look at the differential induction of autoantibodies by a number of oils, including squalene. In order to achieve this, several groups of 3 month old mice received intraperitoneal injections of the compounds. The volume used was 0.5 mL per mouse. At several time intervals, blood samples were examined for the presence of antibodies associated with lupus, and also how strong the antibody response was. Cytokine levels were also measured.

A quick summary of results is that pristane was far more frequently a cause of lupus syndrome and autoantibody levels higher than any of the other oils. IFA was next, then squalene, then other mineral oils such as MOH, MOF, and MOS. Cytokine production was really only boosted by pristane, not much by the others.

The thing that makes this study not relevant to human vaccination adjuvants - apart from the major criticism that it just wasn't designed to investigate that scenario - is that the mice received huge doses of the oils. A medium-sized mouse weighs about 15 grams, and my back-of-the-envelope calculation says that a 0.5mL dose in a mouse equates to a 70kg human receiving nearly 2.5 litres of squalene into the peritoneal cavity.

Yes, mice are a good model for what might happen in humans, but to draw meaningful parallels, the same dosing consideration needs to be applied. So basically if someone wants to extrapolate, this study predicts what would happen in humans if they received that relative amount of squalene into the peritoneum.

pofacedandproud · 25/11/2009 18:41

Thankyou so much once again for taking the time to look Musukebba. You have been so helpful in the last few months and it is really something to have your insight into things. I still feel a little cautious about squalene, having lupus antibodies already, don't know if that is a contra-indication, don't suppose you'd know?

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Musukebba · 26/11/2009 16:56

Hi pofaced: yes I am sure it is not an easy decision for you, and fully understand your caution. Even though a severity spectrum of lupus probably exists, in my knowledge or experience there's certainly no contra-indication to having the adjuvanted vaccine with that as a background. Not even in anything I've read confidentially.

pofacedandproud · 26/11/2009 18:19

ok thanks Musukebba. Deliberating whether to go and have the jab in the States

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