What it says on the official vaccine insert:

[tinalouiseuk]

I don't understand how the manufacturers can say this vaccine's safety is asserted based on the safety of the seasonal flu vaccine - it may be made the same way but it is made with different ingredients! That is like saying one cake is like any other because they are baked the same way - and they aren't.

I read the package insert for this vaccine (copy here: tinyurl.com/les32r ) and it actually says:

?Safety & effectiveness of A (H1N1) vaccine have not been established in pregnant women, nursing mothers or children less than 4 years of age.?

For me, that is a gamble just not worth taking. How dare the manufacturer insist that children and pregnant women need the vaccine and yet make it perfectly clear on the packet ,that they have NOT established its safety!

We will all wrestle with our choices and can only research as thoroughly as possible, gathering all the information available and go from there.

I wish us all good health.

And it's not like NOT having it is a safe option for mother or child.

I believe that the change in law that makes manufacturers excempt from prosecution if a vaccine for a pandemic causes harm - is another cause for concern. If the manufacturer is NOT legally bound to the product's safety then that is simply wrong.

We each can only decide based on what we have read and discovered for ourselves - I still have too many questions about the safety of this product for my family. If I am convinced otherwise and trust the information, then I will consider again.

I also read that the number of swine flu cases that is quoted is based on symptoms observed or reported (ie flu like symptoms) and no longer on a cheek swab or other testing - so all cases of flu-like symptoms are put down to swine flu. That is clearly lunacy.

Which "manufacturer" has insisted that children & pregnt women "need" the vaccine?

I hate fact that it has thiomersol, but I dread even more prospect of DS getting SF.

Another article of interest for those still not certain is a 'how to' of understanding what exactly is in the A(H1N1) vaccine:

www.ehow.com/how_5662451_understand-h1n1-vaccine-contents.html

problem is you don't if you or your child is going to be the one who is seriously ill from it do you.

Someone from dd1's school is in hospital dependent on oxygen, is not improving, fighting for her life. No underlying health conditions and the drs have ruled out it being anything other than swine flu that she has.

It's a very difficult decision to make IMO

Hoochie

that's rubbish!

I think they've tested on pregnant animals but medicines are never trialled on pregnant women as it would be unethical. And in the case of pandemic flu it would take far too long - you'd have to wait until the baby was born to have 'proof' (and then do follow ups).

Am very glad I am not pregnant and therefore having to choose whether to have the jab or not. But a couple of months ago, I spoke to an anaesthetist who runs an ITU in Australia (about something else). He had five pregnant women with swine flu in his department and sadly it was looking very bleak indeed. So I were pregnant, I'd be very worried about swine flu indeed, given your immune system is not suppressed.

Have just booked swine flu jabs for me and dh (have been invited as we both have chronic diseases, dh's is respiratory). But I'd think twice about ds (he won't be offered it yet anyway as he's over 5).

How do you weigh up concerns about vaccine safety against the risk of death from swine flu? It may be a rare-ish result but you just cannot tell whether your child will be made very ill indeed from swine flu - it strikes down the fit and healthy as well as the vulnerable.

Can someone point me to good information in the SF vaccine, please?

I am pregnant and have a 22 month-old DD.

I'm usually all for vaccinations but I am really not sure about this one.

We have all had suspected swine flu, but of course it might not have been.

I just feel like I should explore it a bit more.

Hi Riven;
Do we know anything about the vaccine reporting system? How it works, who reports (patient or Dr) and how it is recorded and accessed?

sorry, your immune system is suppressed in pregnancy (so your body doesn't reject the baby). Changed the way I was phrasing it but left the 'not' in by mistake.

Actually if I were ttc I would definitely have the vaccine, so I didn't have to worry about it during pregnancy.

I thought they were 'offering' it to those groups (children and pregnant women) not insisting that they have it. Choice is still yours I believe. As Riven stated its more of a legal point because of the ethics of it. Fancy offering up your children for the drug trials maybe then?

To Edam:
I read a contrasting report and forum entries from pregnant women who were suffering far worse effects in far greater numbers from the vaccine, than the flu:

www.congresscheck.com/2009/11/11/shocking-h1n1-swine-flu-vaccine-miscarriage-stories-from-pregnant-w omen-%E2%80%93-tell-your-doctors-that-vaccines-and-pregnancy-do-not-mix/

Thanks for the info Riven

tina, you are hardly going to get pregnant women who have had the jab and are absolutely fine posting on a page labelled 'shocking H1N1 swine flu vaccine miscarriage stories', are you? And there's no way of knowing from random internet posts whether there's a higher rate of miscarriage amongst women who have had the jab than you would expect anyway.

The card GPs are supposed to use to record side effects is called the Yellow Card, btw, if you want to mention it when you see your GP.

Riven's right that it is widely believed that side effects are under-reported but I'd imagine severe side effects would be picked up. Because if people are ill, they will go back to their GP. Question is whether GPs report everything they should - that's really not clear.

Edam:
The posts on that link were gathered from a variety of forums with different titles - much like the discussions here. The over-the-top title used 'shocking H1N1 swine flu vaccine miscarriage stories' was simply for that one site in its summary.

I have read the story on various boards and it is titled differently with each.

There were actually plenty of pregnant women on the boards saying they were fine too - there is balance, but it is worth reading all sides and experiences when making sunch an incredibly important decision don't you think?

Riven, i do understand that generally it is a mild illness. The point I was making is it's not a question of 'take the risk of the vaccine, or play safe.' As I'm pg, it really is a question of 'which is the greater risk, and which would have potentially more catastrophic results?' I'm going to have the vaccine.

I think you have to be very careful about what influences your decision-making when it comes to medicines. Easy to select a load of random posts on the internet that appear to prove your point one way or the other. Doesn't mean they actually amount to anything in terms of evidence. Although clearly very sad experiences for each person lots of people miscarry.

MN has influenced some of my decisions, but it's the cut and thrust of informed debate from people like Jimjams who can actually argue about the science, and people who argue the other side rationally, not one carefully selected bunch of very brief stories.

You'd have to know what is the rate of miscarriage (and I'm not sure a six week conception does count as miscarriage, tbh) among women who have had the swine flu jab compared to the normal rate, for starters. Is the US using the same brand as the UK? Is it cause and effect or association? Could there be any other complicating factors?