Scottish Mumsnetters- anyone see the Herald yesterday?

[Tissy]

I took dd for her MMR this morning. Just after the HV had jagged her, then given her three Milky bar drops to stop her crying, the HV asked if I saw the Herald yesterday. Apparently there's been a call for vaccines containing Mercury to be banned. When I asked if the MMR contains mercury she said "no,its the triple that does (presumably the DTP, which dd has already had, of course), anyway its not the mercury that causes problems, its the combination of that injection with this one".

Now, I know the HV is probably taling out of her a* (sorry, that woman drives me to strong language!),but I was too distracted with dd trying to help herself to more choc drops to question her further. Of course the local paper shop didn't have any copies of yesterday's paper.

Any idea what this is all about?

Tissy, MMR is a triple jab or have I misunderstood? Search on mercury here, The Herald online and you'll find the article. Interesting. I wonder what jimjams thinks of this?

Yes MMR is a triple, of course, but I think the DTP which predates the MMR was called the "triple". I'm off to look at the link now, thanks!

Hmm, not going to get too worked up about it-it's rather vague isn't it? So are we supposed to gather that its the DTP which causes autism now, not the MMR, or is it both? It's too late for my poor dd who's had both, so we shall just have to wait and see...

She's not talking out of her backside, it's true, there is reasonable speculation that this is the case. There has been a series of reports on this run by the Sunday Times over the past couple of years. The govenment are going to stop manufacturers using mercury as a preservative (or carrier, I forget which) for the triple, but the NHS is allowed to use remaining stocks up, can you believe it. I dithered over whether to vaccinate mine because of this and the HV was going to find out if the vaccine at our surgery contained mercury, but she never did. I figured that as 'the little man', we would never be able to get our own way on this and buy an alternative, so it was either take the risk with the vaccine or the diseases.

Tissy, the research suggests that the mercury in the system is bad news, then when the MMR comes along, it doesn't contain mercury, but the assult on the system just takes things into overdrive in a small percentage of unfortunate individuals. Personally, I think the risk from the diseases is greater, but only slightly greater, based on the opinion of colleagues. Sorry, rushed, got to bath and put to bed.

I started a thread on this which Jimjams gave some really good advice about. It's a well known fact in Australia that Mercury in the jab can increase the risk of Autism. I did say ADHD but Jimjams actually corrected me and said Autism which is what I meant originally. Can't give you any more advice than that but you may want to have a look at the WHO website or the Australian health service website.

Sorry Droile, I didn't mean to be offensive! I'm sure it probably is true, but I was rather surprised that the HV decided to start this particular conversation just after she had given dd another somewhat controversial jag. She might reasonably anticipate that any mother would be a bit apprehensive at this point. Also, the Herald article doesn't seem to address her second point, that it was the combination of the DTP and MMR that was the problem, and if it is why had she just given my dd the bl**dy thing?

I've had problems with this HV before (see past "whinging about health visitors " threads); this is just another example of her insensitivity.

Thanks to both Droile and Meanmum for the extra insight...I suppose there must be millions of kids who have had both jags and not got autism, so I'm not going to lose any sleep at the moment.

ooh I almost missed this

Right DTP -hib contains thimerosil generally although you can ask the brand infanrix-hib which doesn't. They'll give it to you if you ask but not necessarily if you don't.

Thimerosil contains mercury and has been banned for all routine kiddie jabs in places like Australia for several years. It is being phased out from the UK but manufacturers are allowed to use up stocks.

My view- is that some kiddies are more susceptible to mercury than others. Certainly children with autism tend to be pretty poor at detoxifying poisons- so in some cases I suspect it could be a cause- or at least contribute. It's big news in the States and there are some lawsuits going through now.

Personally I'm not sure about the thimerosil - first hit- MMR second- thing. Could be true in some cases- it's all an immune system onslaught. For others MMR alone may be enough, for others DTP may be. For others DTP plus infection, or DTP plus antibiotics + MMR. Probably depends on how resilient the immune system is.

BTW thimerosil and thiomersil are the same thing- one is US spelling, one UK.

Personally I don't believe thimerosil should be anywhere near a baby jab- if it's a possible contributer to autism they should get it out (especially as there are alternatives). I do not understand why this govt is so anti examining possible causes when the rates of autism are rocketing through the roof. But then this govt has no policy on autism anwyay. Oh god don't start me! I do believe that DTP contributed to ds1's autism although not necessarily because of the mercury- and that's another story really.

Anyway it's Autism Awareness Week this week so lets spare a thought for all the people with autism. They can have a tough time in this Neuro Typical world! And sometimes the parents can have tougher times.

have to say- pretty stupid thing for the HV to say! Talk about causing worry! I wouldn't lose sleep over it though. The Autism Research Unit estimates around 10% of autism is due to MMR- not huge numbers. Also the reaction tends to be fairly dramatic and extreme- so you would tend to discover pretty quickly.

Thanks Jimjams, much more informative.
Tissy, it wasn't offensive, don't worry!

Thanks, Jimjams