Really dont know what to do about having the vaccine...

[laurawantsababy]

Im 16 weeks pg, dd is only 14 months old and dp has asthma.

I really dont know whether to have it or let dd have it.

Do you think you could refuse the 1st invite and then go a month or so later??

I thought about asking my GP if it really is safe but I guess he will have been brainwashed into advising people its best.

Any thoughts? Anyone on here been part of the trial?

I would wait before you make a decision, it will be a while yet before its an option so really theres no point in fretting until more information is out in a month or sos time.

I heard on the radio that scientists seem to think tamiflu only reduces the illness by one (measly) day and still wont gurantee you are protected against further complications

Im not pregnant and my kids are older so not in a similar situation - And Im no scientist either!

Think you're a while off being offered it yet. If concerned when you are then discuss it with your gp or mw. If you don't normally have the flu jab then there is no compulsion or suggestion that SF need hit you worse than seasonal flu.

I don't think GPs are generally "brainwashed".

Yurtgirl tamiflu is antiviral and a separate issue from vaccine.

Is it, oh!!!!
Either way though Im not convinced that scientists REALLY know what the benefits and possible negatives of these new drugs could be

Yes we do, but this thread is about vaccines...

So: the efficacy of both swine flu vaccines for the UK is more than 90% (that's a lot better than the seasonal flu vaccine (70-80%).

Protection very likely to last several years (compare with seasonal flu vaccine protection of 1 year max).

"Benefits"

1. You won't have to worry whenever DH/P/D/S get a sniffle. Yes ladies: that's several years' freedom of the incoming variant 'swine origin man-flu'.

1. You won't have to rely on a telephone diagnosis of a respiratory illness.

1. You won't need to be swabbed.

1. You won't have to take antivirals.

1. If in a high-risk group for complications, it's likely you'll be protected from severe disease.

1. If immunocompetent, you're less likely to get a subclinical infection and pass it on to others in the family, or to patients if you work in healthcare.

"Possible negatives"

1. There's two injections.

1. The adjuvanted vaccine is more likely to give pyrexia.

1. Err... that's it.

Is another negative that it's very new and not been fully tested??

I'm not sure I want my under 5s to have it. I'm going to wait and see if my GP friends give it to their kids.....

Not really... it's made by the same process as the yearly seasonal vaccine, and the EMEA (the European agency concerned with licencing vaccines) has been happy with this system for years. They don't insist on full clinical trials every year, and tens of millions of vaccines produced in this way against yearly drifted H1N1 and H3N2 strains have been given safely.

EMEA have also been happy over the last few years with the newer avian H5N1 flu vaccines - the so-called 'mock vaccine' comparator for the swine flu one - which are also produced in the same way as seasonal flu vaccine. These H5N1 versions have been given to over 50,000 people without serious adverse effects recorded.

Anyway, your under 5s won't qualify for the vaccine unless they - or someone else in your household - are in a high-risk category.

That's good that they won't qualify, I won't have to worry about it then. I thought in this case they were a high risk group in themselves. I've tried not ignore most of the press stuff about this anyway, they like a good hype IMO.

Thanks all. I will have a chat with my mw.

Musukebba, it is my [limited] understanding that because of the time frame and scarcity of the virus the swine flu virus will contain the adjuvant squalene, which is unlicensed as an adjuvant in the States. Do you know if Squalene is is a: unlicensed in the States
b; problematic in any way?
Thankyou!

Do you mean that you want to wait to see if people start 'dropping like flies' from adverse reactions to the vaccine.

Personally, they say you are not to eat to much tuna because of mercury, then they want to shoot you up with a load in the guise of a vaccine.

Which vaccine (swine flu or other) still has a mercury-based component in it, QEverything?

Nothing I've read (from credible sources) worries about squaline, Poface.

I think if I were pregnant now I would get the vaccine when offered. But it's not a big deal issue to me, it's just an option that feels slightly better to me (personally) than the alternative.

Before you decide check out the truth at:

articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/08/06/Proof-That-Thimerosal-Induces-A utismLike-Neurotoxicity.aspx

The vaccine is worse than the flu

'The vaccine is worse than the flu'.

Unless you have a child who is at risk of death from the flu. And then this is a hard, hard decision.

musukebba is there already a swine flu vaccine in existence, I mean, not this new one?

possible negatives:

all the complications associated with any vaccine plus new unknown complication due to poverty of test data

Firstly go to :
www.uktabloid.co.uk/MainNews.html
scroll down and learn the truth about this dreaded abuse of the public!

oh for pete's sake gibbs

you're like a man with a sandwich board yelling that we're DOOMED! DOOMED!

give it a rest.. nobody's taking you seriously

"The British Neurological Surveillance Unit, part of the British Association of Neurologists, has been asked to monitor closely any cases of Guillaine Barre Syndrome as the vaccine is rolled out. One senior neurologist said last night: "I would not have the swine flu jab because of the GBS risk.""

Presumably some Deep Throat the DM has contacted.

GBS is a rare but acknowledged side effect of the normal flu vaccine.

Lijkk is is true that squalene is not licensed for use as an adjuvant in the US?

If you think gibbs is bad check out Badgerr on another very extensive thread. That post is a sandwich board

Hi all - apologies for not replying sooner; I lost the thread !

pofaced: The GSK swine flu vaccine has an adjuvant whereas the Baxter one doesn't. The GSK one - called 'AS03' - has squalene in it and is very similar to the MF59 adjuvant used in a US-licenced seasonal flu vaccine preparation (Novartis). Tens of millions of doses have been given with this, and it has a very good safety profile in controlled trials looking for SAEs over 6 months follow-up. The AS03 adjuvant is in the H5N1 vaccine I referred to above - licenced in various countries such as Australia, Hong Kong, Singapore - and so the 50,000 people so far immunised with that provide good early evidence that it is a safe adjuvant. In the data I have seen, statistically there are no more SAEs in people vaccinated with AS03-containing H5N1 preparations than in people given placebo or the same antigen but without AS03. That's also with 6 month follow-up (and counting).

As a general point about their use: yes, these adjuvants are necessary to allow better use of a limited amount of viral antigen. The seed strains used do not yet grow well in culture, and it would be impossible to provide the supplies of vaccine to meet the demand otherwise. The squalene adjuvants also seem to produce a stronger immune response to viral antigens, and unexpectedly provide protection against drifted strains. So with H5N1 - and probably H1N1v - although it's a 2-dose schedule you get protection against mutated strains for up to 5 years at least.

Re Guillaine Barre syndrome: this is a rare SAE and as Riven says is associated with any vaccine. With seasonal influenza the approximate rate of 1 case per million doses is far below that rate occurring after natural influenza infection. Incidentally, the 1976 swine flu vaccine did not contain any adjuvant so that cannot be held responsible for the eventual estimation of several times the background GBS rate in that campaign. The vaccine was made very differently from anything produced today, and great care is taken these days to screen the products for contaminating factors like lipolysaccharide which could have been responsible for the excess GBS cases.