2 year old - possible lisping?

[Hughsie]

Hard to tell if it is a problem yet but ds1 who is just over 2 seems to have a lisp - he tends to leave his tongue between his lips when he ends a word. He uses a dummy for sleeping only and I'm not sure if this is a cause of the problem or if it is a problem at all at the moment.

Has anyone else any experience of this - i am concerned and wonder if we need to wean him off the dummay and seek advice from a speech therapist

IME you'll be shown a speech therapist as soon as your labour starts

It's not a bad thing - but remember to keep things in perspective.

My DD was a bit slow with speech and it was because she had Glue ear ( which affects her speech )

My Motto : Always err on the side of caution - but don't over-react.

Any Use ?

Thanks - I'm trying not to over react as it is something that has been there a while - i think I am concerned that it will be left as we are busy with new ds2 and probably feel I need to be taking action for ds1 - went in and removed his dummy last night!!

I think just over 2 is a bit young to be worrying about a lisp! At 2 SALT's worry more about how language is progressing rather than actual speech. ie at 2 they would be concerned if your son wasn't talking at all, but not with a possible lisp.

If you're worried wean him off the dummy (it may be easier now than later anyway). If you're really worried see if your area has a drop in SALT clinic.

its worth checking his hearing is ok

You don't need to worry about a lisp at 2 - but IMO you can do something about it. Play games with him, and get him to hiss like a snake. At this age you can't explain to him how to make the sound correctly, but with a bit of luck you might be able to get him to start making the right sound.

Different areas vary as to when they intervene with ST.

DS1 is nearly 6 - his language has always been fantastic, but his speech poor - at 3 he had LOADS of sounds missing. We were told not to worry; that they would just come in time; that we shouldn't make a big issue of it, correct him, or insist he say the sound properly; but just repeat the words back to him properly ... But nothing happened naturally! He started speech therapy 2 years ago, and has made loads of progress. But is still very bad with sss sounds. He can now make them correctly if he tries very hard, but 98% of the time, doesn't.

I don't know, but I suspect that we could have got him making a sss sound when he was much much younger, and saved all this hassle ... Who knows?

aplogise in advance for hijacking....

kmg- did you have a diagnosis? Was it verbal dyspaxia? How often does the SALT see your ds1? Do you do Nuffield or something else? Ever tried Kaufman? SALT at school? Who provides?

Sorry for all the questions- I'm as desperate as I sound!

Oh and are you UK? If you're US I'll return to skulking under my stone!

Oh and Hughsie- other games include things lile licking things off lips, blowing bubbles, straw painting etc

sounds like sss, shhhhhh and ffffff are quiet sounds sometimes not heard properly by a child who has mild hearing impairment

make sure you are starting from a clear sheet so to speak

make sure a hearing test is done, am only saying this out of personal experience

hth

sobernow- depends on the sound- but around 5. Before then I think it's within the realms of normal. Sh and F are some of the last sounds to get right I think (I did have a sheet with all this on- but have no idea where I have put it- so dragging this out of memory).

tbh I think it really is too early to worry, for example double consonants like th and sh don't really come with clarity until 4/5. Also at 2 there is still teeth movement and they have yet to acquire strong tongue control.

Our ds was highlighted as having potential probelms at 3.5 but a year later was cleared. We were advised to do tongue exercises in the mirror like licking lips and making rolling movements inside the mouth which help develop the muscles and improve clarity in the meantime.

Possibly losing the dummy would help but if it is only at night then it won't directly affect the speech but may not help develop tongue control or teeth either. I'm worried that dd's thumb sucking could have a detrimental effect on her tooth alignment and thereby speech but at 20 months feel it is really too early to tell.

Had same worry with my DD when she was same age dropped dummy at 3 and now at 5 no problem at all.I think we were at fault as we let her talk to us with dummy in!

I worry whether it is to do with the dummy but to be honest he hardly ever talks with it in as we have always only given it at sleep time and he hands it back when he wakes.

I know 2 seems young to worry but I think it is just the thought that we could be heading off a potential problem that appeals. I will try the suggested games and we do repeat words correctly.

it is strange as his speech /vocabulary is not brilliant anyway - never says mummy - only mooooom but dadddeeeee is as clear as a bell - typical! Often says the beginning of words and doesn't finish them too - being parents we have got used to the sounds and we know what he means most of the time

Hughsie,

It is really common for kids to start words but not finish. I think their brains can be too quick for their mouths to articulate fully. Our nephew aged 4 still does this and I have to admit I believe he does need therapy because he starts school in September and is hard to understand. However your ds is 2 years off this and you seem to already be doing the right things by simply listening to and being aware of him.

Keep reiterating the correct pronunciation ie. if he says "hor.."(horse) repeat it in a different form "Yes that horse is brown" (or whatever). That way you are reinforcing the correct pronunciation while adding to it, rather than simply undermining him by straight repetition - it sounds like you do this anyway. Another tip I have come across is to avoid animated tv which doesn't demonstrate the correct mouth movements to articulate clearly( although I suspect that this may be arguable).

If you are really concerned then perhaps you could get a referral but I fear you may be dismissed as prematurely concerned. We found that our ds' vocabulary came in bursts and later than dd's whose progress is already steadier and will link words together in mock sentences because she has her brother to copy.

good luck

LIZS - thanks for your advice - would I talk to my hv as a first port of call?

To be honest dh is getting more worried as feels we need to take positive action - I am a 'little' more relaxed but not much.

My SIL bypassed the HV having got little constructive advice there and I think got nephew initially assessed via gp referral. Ironically she was then told not to worry by the SALT but given strategies to help him. Sadly I think that his speech development was then overlooked due to circumstantial changes, and as you say, parents and those in regular contact get used to the lapses and are able to understand in spite of them. He has not been reassessed since as far as I know.

There are others here who have kids under referral to SALT so their advice on this is probably far better informed than mine.

hth

Almost anyone can refer to SALT. We were referred by the HV, but you can also be referred by nursery or by GP.

You may be better off checking whether there is a drop in clinic- ask your HV. You can then just go along for some advice. They're really not going to do any sound work until a child is over 3. Even children with severe verbal dyspraxia don't start sound work until after three. Before then it's just language games.

A lot of speech development is to do with listening skills so they would suggest listening games. For example find some pictures of cows sheep etc. Make the animal noise and ask your child to point to which animal makes the noise. This can be expanded to getting them to jump on the correct picture. Or hide pictures, make the noise and ask them to find the right picture.

The sorts of things they d on zingalong as well- matching sounds using shakers etc.

Don't correct your child. If they say something incorrectly just model the correct word- "yes that's right it's a train" or whatever.

If you are referred you will be waiting a long time. you may be better ringing the SALT service and asking if they can send you some photocopies of some idea for games to play with your child.

Jimjams - in answer to your questions:

No, we've never had a diagnosis. (DS1 is very bright, no really, not just me saying that. Out of his year of 60 kids he is top in literacy and science, by a long way. And among top 5 in Maths. But he does have some social/behavioural problems. At the moment school has these under control, he is on SEN register, but not statemented. Sees SENCO from time to time).

He started SALT at 3.5, and went monthly - what a waste of time. Actually he did make some good progress at first - learned to say f, p, and b. But very slow. This was through NHS, in Oxfordshire.

Then we moved. Here (Cumbria) he saw SALT weekly for 4 months, then we've just had a break. Started again last week, and will be going weekly for at least a couple of months again. This is not in school, but fortunately the clinic is very close to our house, on the way to school, so he doesn't miss too much time.

What is Kaufmann? Nuffield? Verbal Dyspraxia?

Bloddy hell kmg you almost get a SALT service. (except for the original monthly services). Maybe I should move to Cumbria!

Verbal dyspraxia is a motor problem so that the muscles of the mouth cannot be coordinated to produce speech sounds properly. It can occur without oral dyspraxia (which is an inablity to make any mouth moevements correctly- like chewing etc). It often accompanies fine motor dyspraxia.

Signs of verbal dyspraxia (called apraxia in the states) include being unable to say certain sounds, saying words differently each time, being able to say words correctly in isolation but not in a sentence. It doesn't respond to conventional SALT- and needs a specific system- in the UK the Nuffield is the one usually used. The Nuffield teaches children to make a sound in repsonse to a card- a drum is "d" and and a camera is "k". The sounds are then used to build up words, so to learn to say shoe- you would say "sh -oo, sh- oo, sh- oo, shoe" kaufman cards are used in the States - they take a whole word approach so children are taught to say a word via a series of approximations.

Sorry to throw so many questions at you. I only asked as my son has autism but I am convinced he has verbal dyspraxia as well (and recently a paed did say the same). However he isn't receiving any SALT for it- and it doesn't get better without it. In desperation we're trying to use the Nuffield and kaufman systems at home and nursery, but none of us really know what we're doing (he is totally incomprehensible).

Sorry you're having problems getting SALT. I know we are so lucky here. The therapist is just brilliant - she relates to ds1, and inspires him so much. She is also excellent at her job - explaining to him exactly how to make the missing sounds, and correcting him when it's not quite right. He is highly motivated to sort his speech out, and practises every day.

Anyway, not sure what I can suggest for you really. I did some linguistics at Uni, including some phonetics, so I have some background, but I still can't hear the finer details of exactly what is going on. Currently he can say 't', 'd', and 'sh' - but can't put them together to say 'ch' or 'j' ... I have tried to explain to him, but he just won't take it from me. I know she is moving on to these sounds soon, and I know he will do it for her. ... You really do need the professional. Keep pushing. Hope you get a good one eventually.

How old is your son?

He's 4 on Wednesday kmg- and totally incomprehensible for example today when I said to him where are we going he said "ba bee beebum" which is "going to playgroup". That's about as clear as he gets! it's great as he has suddenly started speaking in sentences, but he's now even less comprehensible than he was! The frightening thing is we supposedly have "access to a SALT"= we see her approx once every 3 months. She is lovely but I feel we really need weekly sessions. I really feel out of my dpeth with this. Aslo when we last saw her he was saying mainly single words, suddenly its sentences and I don't knpw what to do with that!

Anyway the good news is while I was out the kaufman cards arrived form the states- so I'll go and collect those in a minute and see how he repsonds to those.

Thanks for letting me know about your son though- hope you continue to get SALT.

Jimjams - I know your son has various difficulties, but hope this is inspiring for you on the language front.

Ds1 started nursery when he was almost 4, and no-one could understand him at all - he spoke in very complex sentences, but had a very limited range of sounds - he couldn't say f, v, s, sh, c, g, p, t, j, ch, z, l, r, ...! i.e. basically he could say b, d, n, m, and that was about it! Now he can say almost everything except s, ch, and j. Also, it hasn't affected his literacy at all - he actually learned to spell out words, to make himself understood! And is now an excellent reader.

He's never been diagnosed, and I've never been given a 'reason', just that 'some children don't pick up the sounds naturally'. But for us once he did learn a sound and worked on it for a month or so, he then quickly assimilated it into his language, and didn't regress back. (Exception being 's' - he didn't have a 's' sound at all, not even a lisp, he would use a completely different sound instead - n, or b, or d. Then he learned the 's', but I think it wasn't corrected quick enough - the joys of monthly SALT, and he started lisping, which we can't seem to shake off.)

Hope the kaufmann cards are good for you - do they suggest an order of sounds to work on? Some are easier than others. Take it very slowly, and just work on one sound at a time.

Anyway, hope you have a good birthday. My other son was 4 last week - can't believe it's gone so fast.

Thanks kmg- sounds very interesting- and encouraging! Ds1 is missing loads of sounds as well (including all fricative sounds- his s is also an n)

Kaufam cards just arrived. We have the basic kit- which starts with the easier sounds. Looks like b's d's etc - the one's he's using.

please help
my 3 year old has a little lisp and i have just noticed that she could be tongue tied meaning her tongue is attached at the very tip to the floor of her mouth
i am very very worried
please help with advice if you can

Caroline - I would make a doctor's appointment and see what they say about it. I don't have any experience of this, but I'm sure that I've read that if the tongue is joined to the floor of the mouth that it's very simple to correct. HTH