Continued support for SPHINCTER INJURIES, FISTULAE and other CHILDBIRTH INJURIES - the Ragged Bits Thread

[Jacksmama]

Hi all,
old thread here.

Cyee started this thread in May 2008 after her op, and it's been a haven of support for so many of us who have injuries to our bits from childbirth. Especially with respect to sphincter injuries, fistulae and incontinence after childbirth, there seems to be such a lack of support for women, and the entire subject seems to be taboo. It's as if most MD's think that "a certain amount of damage is to be expected after birth and you just have to live with it". Well, that is simply not the case - and this attitude is unacceptable.

There are all kinds of Ragged Bits stories on this thread. Be aware that THERE IS NO "TMI" HERE - this is the one place where you can spill it all. If you read through the old thread, which is nearly full, you'll see that someone, somewhere, has probably experienced it - whatever it is! So don't be embarrassed or ashamed... we'll tell our poo stories if you'll tell yours.

And also - there are success stories here. Several of us who have been through the medical mill have been successfully "repaired" and are "fully functional", so to speak or even expecting again. In those cases, please join us for Pervwatch - the "after action" report for anyone who is once again venturing into marital relations!

Welcome everyone. We're sorry you had to find us, but we're glad you're here.

why are you so desperate to avoid anti depresants?It sounds like you need some help coming to terms with all this,maybe councelling?You sound so low,please see your gp and tell him you're not coping.
take care.x

Hi flymttm, I have chronic pelvic pain so I can understand what you are going through to a certain extent. I don't cry non stop everyday anymore.
I too am avoiding anti Ds. I believe what we are going through is grief for our losses and that it is a honest reaction to what has happened. I really don't want this thread to turn into a discussion about depression but I had to say that. Also everyone is different.
Anyway back to business...I am on Pregabalin(lyrica) 300mg per day for pain relief.(it is also marketed as anti anxiety drug). I am on it 2 years now and at a lower dose of 150mg it wasn't enough to control the pain. It took months for the doubled dose to kick in and be effective. It has helped but I do as little as possible so as not to bring on pain. I was told by many medical people that my pain may go after 2 years. It seems to be the time scale for many. Also if you can suppress the pain for long enough with drugs it may cause the nerves to stop sending pain signals to the brain.
Thank goodness Ann Summers worked for you. The resulting pain that you got could be the pudendal nerve acting up but at least it works still so there is life! I purchased one of their products but it didn't do anything.
Now for the TMI bowel bit. Seriously turn away now if this is not your problem. Emptying manually is horrible but I do it everyday otherwise I would look 6 months pregnant all the time. My tools are latex gloves (buy them by the boxful) and gylcerol suppositories. I hate it but I have no choice. I hope this is helpful to someone out there.

Hi Ruinedandupset. I just wanted to thank you for responding to me. Yesterday I felt so truly, truly dreadful but you gave me hope. I dont know anyone else who knows what i am talking about. I have been struggling for six months. Today i am going to the doctors and I am going to start anti d`s because I have been getting so agitated that I dont think my body could relax enough to give the medications a chance to work. My life has altered beyond recognition, indeed sometimes I think i dont have a life. I used to play tennis, run, go to the cinema go out for meals but none of these things are possible at the moment. (although i did feel some relief a couple of weeks ago and went out to lunch.) Doing too much brings on the pain again.

I am sorry that you have suffered so much and I am relieved to hear that you are able to manage the pain . I read in ealier posts girls are trying SNS is this an option for you.?

I am off to the hospital tomorrow for a CT scan for my intravascular leiyomatoses and i am secretly hoping it might show up something related to the pelvic pain which started after an operation in September. Please keep in touch. I wish you well and big hugs for being such a caring person. Thank you.
On a really superficial note, have you managed to keep your weight stable, or is weight gain unadvoidable

so much. I have back through the posts,

Hi Flymttm. No weight gain from drugs or inactivity for over 2 years now. Again its the same for me, I was very physically fit and had a heavy manual career that I really enjoyed (gone forever now). I too have learnt that its not worth trying to do anything as I pay for it afterwards in pain and worse bowel problems. I think I am contactable through this site if you want to try. Keep going, its early days yet even though it must feel like its dragging for you. Best of luck with the recent tests.

Hello - I hope you don't mind, but someone linked me to this thread, on a thread I started.

I am 31 weeks pregnant with my 3rd dc, I had a 3rd degree tear with dc1, and a 2nd degree tear with dc2. I didn't have any physical examination after having dc1, and was able to deliver dc2 vaginally.

I had a couple of incidences of fecal incontinence after having dc1, but otherwise seemed to heal well.

This pregnancy I have had horrendous wind, which I have no control over, and yesterday I pooed myself on the way back from school, I had no warning that I was going to go, and I had no control at all, it just seemed to leak out of me (sorry for tmi).

I've been in tears ever since. I'm terrified that I will spend the rest of my pg doing this, that giving birth again will leave me completely incontinent (the consultant said I wouldn't be eligible for a cs) and I am now worrying that this will be a problem in the future - post menopause (especially as due to previous illness I am likely to have an early menopause).

I haven't read through the thread (will do when dcs are in in bed), so sorry if my problem seems trivial.

misswyoming are you sure you cant have a section, my physio told me that because I had a 2nd degree tear with my DD, if I had any more ch I could opt for section...id push for one if I were you. Tell them about the effect its having on you mentally already... good luck x

miss w
please speak to your midwife to ask her to recommend a different consultant that would be more open to the idea of a c section.This is what I did with dc3 and I had a c section with his blessing.
I also have incidents of fecal incontinence and I feel for you.Make a fuss and see someone asap.this is importantfor your future health.
take care

Thankyou, chocolate and Laine.

I spoke to a MW the other day over the phone, and couldn't stop crying . She arranged for me to see a consultant on Monday. I'm glad its so soon, as I can't stop worrying.

Reading through the thread, I'm shocked at how many women have such enormous problems as a result of giving birth, and smetimes the medical mismanagement of their births. I take my hat off to all of you.

I'll let you knwo how I get on on Monday.

BTW, its misswyoming here, I had namechanged due to embarrassment, but see now that it shouldn't be something to be embarrassed about.

Just to let you know, I saw the consultant today, she was very dismissive of my fears, and said that as the damage is already done (she said I would almost certainly need corrective surgery to my back passage after having dc3), then a c-section would not prevent further continence issues. She also seemed convinced that I would not tear again, (despite having torn twice), and that having an epsiotomy would be enough to prevent a tear (despite having had an epsiotomy both times previously). Eventually, she said that she could understand why I was terrified of giving birth, and set a day for a c-section. It felt very strange to be arguing for something which I am, tbh pretty scared of (a section), but at the same time, my fear of tearing again, and causing even more damage is overwhelming.

I have had a couple of 'close thing' incidents, which has left me pretty fearful, it is such a horrible thing to deal with.

thankyou again.

Hazy I have just popped back to this thread and not read it all but Obstetric guidelines say that an episiotomy should not be performed if you have previously torn. I think its RCOG guidelines. I will find a link...

I will read as much of the thread as poss now (haven't posted here for months) and will add more but just wanted to try and catch you if you're about.

Hazeyjane, I have just re-read your post and seen that you've got your cs so I am really pleased. Pregnancy is hard enough without continence issues or worrying about worsening symptoms. I am sorry your consultant has been so unsupportive.

I have had the same experience of faeces just leaking out in public and not having any awareness of it coming. It was mortifying and actually left me really shocked.

In terms of treatment post baby, I don't enough enough about your damage to guess. My history is a misdiagnosed tear with my daughter last year (forceps). I have had several procedures to try and repair my internal anal sphincter which have mostly left me in more pain. I am on a waiting list for permanent Sacral Nerve Stimulation.

There is hope. Try not to worry about it now. You should be looking forward to your new dc.

I will keep popping back to the thread if you want to chat more. I realise my post is a bit waffley.

I will update on me another time soon. I came looking for Doombar to say thanks for the advice on the other thread. x

Thankyou Hulla, so sorry to hear of your ongoing difficulties. It is very interesting what you say about the elective episiotomy. It is very hard arguing with a consultant, the few that I have had dealings with have been God-like in their demeanor (in good ways as well as bad)!

I have an appointment to see a physio to talk about continence issues, and an appointment booked for 3 months post birth to see a consultant about a scan/possible surgery.

I have been very surprised, having mentioned this to 2 close friends, that they too have been having continence issues/a prolapse. It is such a difficult thing to talk about. Thank god for Mumsnet.

Hazey, do you know the cause of your problems?

I was sent for endo-anal scans which revealed a large defect in my internal sphincter. My first repair was an injection of bulking agent to act as a substitue for the missing muscle. This had some effect but not all positive.

My next "repair" was a trial of sacral nerve stimulation. This procedure was actually much better than the previous one in terms of pain & recovery. It had a marked effect on my control of wind though wasn't as amazing for faeces but still better.

I thought there was no hope for me when I had my awful public incontinence & when I've had humilliating episodes of loud windbreaking in public but whilst having the trial I definately felt more confident.

Keep us posted & good luck!

hello...
i've been linked to this thread from another thread on post forceps birth related issues...
admittedly i haven't been able to read this entire thread, but have read parts, and really feel for some of you who are in such a terrible situation, painwise and also dealing with incontinence issues and other physical issues... i am so so angry at myself for not having an elective c-section for my second child, 4.5 months ago... my first was a very long and traumatic labour resulting in emergency c-section, and it took me a long time to get over emotionally, but only days to get over physically...

with my second child i got convinced to try a vaginal birth, and pumped full of false confidence, false empowerment etc, that my body was designed for this, that it was safer than a repeat c-section, etc etc... anyways i had a traumatic long labour much like the first time, and then wheeled down to theatre where i was begging for a c-section, and before i knew it my baby was being ripped from me with forceps....

my recovery was horrendous, i wasn't able to walk or sit or move really without horrific pain for probably 4 weeks... i was also completely incontinent (urine)... i was in excrutiating pain besides being told 'everything looked good and was healing well'...

nearly 5 months on and i am still incontinent... undergoing intense phsyiotherapy and using an electrical stimulation device to try to rehabilitate my none existant pelvic floor.... my incontinence is classified as 'stress' incontinence, not urgency.... i could handle it completely if it was like the definition of stress incontinence, when i sneezed, laughed, exercised... but for me it is literally whenever i move, stand up, walk - you get the picture.... i have been so depressed but am a lot better now, i'm not sure why.... i think acceptance and learning to manage it better.... i was prescriped anti depressants as i was having a terrible time coping, however i took one and couldn't stand the way they made me feel and couldn't continue...

this is the worst thing i have had to deal with, and i look at my beautiful baby boy and feel guilty that i am so hung up on the way my body has been assaulted.... i feel like i should feel glad just to have two perfect kids.... but i can't go out alot, certainly can't go out and have a few drinks with friends, dancing or exercising - forget it..

i suppose i should feel grateful that i am not in terrible pain, or do not have any other issues....

my partner and i haven't had sex for about a year, i try not to think about what this means... he doesn't talk about it or bring it up.... sometimes i wonder if we will ever have sex again.... i am only 30.

okay going to post this now before i ramble any more....

oh just wanted to add, i don't know anyone who is going thru any birth related trauma, all my friends have popped out several babies without any ill effect.... i don't get why it was so horrific for me... oh and also i am in australia by the way, just fyi...

So sorry you are going through this golfgirl79
Your story sounds abit like mine. I had an EMCS with my first child after a long labour.
I was told that a VBAC would be the best option for my second child as it would be a faster recovery etc. I did natal hypnotherapy to prepare for the birth and tried to stay active during labour. It still resulted in me having a fourth degree tear. I also lost the use of my bladder for 3 weeks and had to have a catheter fitted. My wound became infected and I was on so many tablets I think I rattled- not good when you are breastfeeding.
It is a year since I had my DD and I am still having physio. My scar is still painful but my consultant has said there is nothing else they can do for me.
Like you, I still reprimand myself for not having a CSection as I recovered so quickly when I had mine.
I really hope that the physio helps as it is helping me. I was only allowed to keep the electro stim machine for 6 weeks due to a waiting list of other people needing it so I bought one myself and this does help.

Take care.

Hi Golfgirl79,

I just wanted to say how sorry I am for the situation you find yourself in.

My first DC was born by emergency c-section. With my second birth I too was lulled into a full sense of security by my midwife who kept saying how much better for me it would be to have a VBAC especially as I already had a toddler to look after.

The birth of my second DC was aided by ventouse, I was given an episiotomy but still had 4th degree tears and left hospital with a catheter in because I was incontinent.

I was very fortunate in that I managed to regain control of my bladder. I am still seeing a physio for pelvic floor exercises and help with stress and urge incontinence.

It's now five months since the birth of DC2 and I still beat myself up that I didn't go for an elective c-section. I am angry at my midwife and more importantly myself for not realising that I'm not particularly good at giving birth. I had an excellent recovery from my emergency c-section but 5 months on I'm still recovering from my "natural" birth.

I don't feel I gained anything through having a VBAC as I still don't feel as if I gave birth myself.

I also don't know anyone else who has suffered anything more than a 2nd degree tear giving birth. Certainly no one who left hospital incontinent with a catheter in.

I just wanted to say that there are a lot of women out here who have experienced significant problems giving birth and are struggling to cope with the consequences.

Please don't feel guilty about being hung up on the way your body has been treated. In the first weeks after my DC2's birth I felt as if my body had been mutilated... What also upset me was the fact that none of the staff in the hospital where I stayed for a week after the birth even acknowledged that I might be traumatised by what had happened to me.

I am waiting for some counselling to talk through my emotions. I don't know what the system is in Australia but might it be worth asking for some help like this?

Rubberplant your story is very similar to mine except I had a forcep delivery instead of ventouse. I feel I have been mutilated and now feel like damaged goods. I think I need some kind of counselling too as it has been a year and I still feel traumatised and let down. I also feel guilty about feeling like this as I have 2 beautiful DC'S. One of the midwives said 'at least you have a healthy baby' and this made me feel so selfish for feeling angry about my treatment.
I hope you get yuor counselling soon, good luck and take care.

Hi All,

Havent posted for a long while, just want to say CONGRATS CYEE on the birth of your baby, delighted everything went well for you!

Not much different with me. Chat soon Dxx

Hi, my problem probably seems quite insignificant compared to some people on here, but can I talk about piles on here? They are bad, not the type that vanish after the birth, they are still around a year after the birth and I haven't had much response on any other forums.

They appeared about 7/8 months into the pregnancy and were made much worse by 2 hours pushing out a large baby with a head size on the 98 centile.

I've had different creams and suppositories from the doctor but they didn't work, so I went and had them 'banded' three months ago, not a pleasant experience, basically they put a rubber band around them and they fall off a few days after, it was really painful afterwards - much worse than giving birth.

Anyway, it got rid of them for a few weeks but now they are back. The consultant also pointed out I have 'skin tags' where big piles have shrunk away. I can feel this tag constantly and had an inspection of it whilst the piles were gone - I couldn't bear to look down there whilst they were around. My perineum looks a mess. I've been told they can't remove these tags and I feel deformed. A big pile is poking out now and I just can't stand it.

I was told by the consultant that an operation is the next step if the banding doesn't work. I keep hearing that this is the most painful operation you can ever have and it's terrifying me - I already have a phobia of hospitals! I daren't go back to the doctors quite yet, but I also know I can't just leave them to get worse.

Has anyone had a similar problem, if so how did you get rid of it?

I don't know anything at all about piles sorry janie but it sounds like a second opinion might a good idea. Can you ask to see another consultant?

Sorry it's not much help, didn't want to leave your post unreplied to. Have you looked into natural remedies? Are you eating well & avoiding constipation so that you don't strain? I am probably suggesting things you're already doing, I know, but I would want to try and avoid an operation - particularly if the first one only had temporary success.

Do you know what the success rate of the second op is and how long it takes to recover from? You may decide it's worth the pain in the short term to feel better in the long term but if there is a high risk of the piles returning then I'd probably look for an alternative.

Sorry that's so waffly, I'm here if you want to talk.

Hi everyone,
It's been a long time since I was on here. Thank you for keeping it going, as you're all a fabulous support.
Welcome to our new friends (on useless PC so apols for not naming names etc. as scrolling around is a mare).
Surprisingly I am still shocked by the lack of understanding and support given to people with birth injuries. Surely it can't be surprising that incontinence, pain, etc. all mixed in with heady hormones is a recipe for misery? Grrrrr... I really hope you all get the support you need and bloody deserve. And to echo others, don't feel bad about feeling mutilated/assaulted - just because you have a baby doesn't mean you can switch off being a person and a woman.
As for me, DD2 is now 6.5 months old and is just a joy. I kind of feel like her utter chilled-ness is my reward for the shite I've been through. Physically I'm a bit of a sexual iceberg due to breastfeeding drying my bits up (sorry!). It means I'm much more aware of my scar. If it doesn't sort itself once I stop bf-ing I guess I'll have to go and get it seen about... deep joy.
Anyway, things are fine with me and will try and get on here more often.
Take care of yourselves x

Hello Cyee! And everybody else too. Not been on here for ages either. I've had my repair and apparently I am female again.

ThingOne - wheyheyyyyy!!!!! Great news! :)

hi everyone
gosh its been months and months since ive been on here.
Anyways ive tried to read through and catch up with things.

Cyee - i know its 7 months or so late but congratulations

thing one - hpw did the repair go?

me well i have resumed a sex life. The Ann Summers gadgets are what has helped me a lot. Start with small thin one and work my way up in size until i reach a normal size lol well whats normal to some is big/small to others.

Anyway i do still have a sore tender area at the back of the entrance and have accepted thats how it will be.

What made it possible for me to begin using Ann Summers products was a coplpscopy i had to have. Think it stretched me and it did feel like it split/tore me apparently they had to use the small size thingy thing.

So thats me, ive bought some of those pelvic floor muscle exersizers but am too scared to insert them lol.

Thinking of you all