elderly parents drinking a lot - anyone else?

[nottoosureaboutthis]

Hope this isn't too long. Have namechanged for this.

My parents are quite elderly (M 78, D 82). Both have always enjoyed a drink and probably rather too many over the years. Both have health issues, particularly D. I really don't think they are drink-related but might be made worse by drink.

Anyway,I can't help but notice the continual drinking that goes on at their place. Mum is more restrained, she knows if she has booze she'll finish it, so generally doesnt start drinking or avoids having any gin or sherry in the house. Dad likes lager, red wine and whisky (not in the same glass) which she doesn't like, so his drinking doesn't start her off. He doesn't go out, or move about much, but is basically topped up on booze from about 10.30 (when he gets up) until about 9 when he goes to bed. When I was there today I noticed cans of lager in his bedroom.

Now I am perfectly capable of polishing off far more booze than is good for me and have done so tonight. However even I sort of feel this is a bit out of control and a bit worrying. But it doesn't seem very kind to suggest to an unwell 80+ yo (who has been a creaking gate as it were for the last 30 yrs) that he should cut down on what is probably the only thing that gives him pleasure.

any thoughts, Mnetters?

well, my mum drinks way too much and won't admit her own parents were alcoholics (I remember my nan well; grandad died long before i was born). she is 73 and i am about to post on here about her own drinking at this very moment, if you are awake and still here... i don't know where else to go at this time of night... watch this space...

I think it's none of your business, actually. What are your specific concerns?

No-one is going to say that this is good for them, but it's also their lives.

BIWT - I agree it's their lives, and also it gives them pleasure. I am not worried about units of consumption etc.

But:

• dad fell over the other day, had been drinking too much, fell asleep, mum had to throw a duvet over him, then sit in a chair until god knows what time in the morning (about 2 I think) till he woke up, then get him upstairs (the stairlift is on the way). He was covered in bruises from the fall but apparently didn't accept that anything had happened. Probably didn't remember. He is too heavy for her to lift and too wobbly on his feet (before the booze) to get up himself without a lot of help. She has major mobility issues and the pair of them could have been beached in the middle of the night away from the phone and distressed.

• I have no siblings. They live at least an hour and a half's drive away from us. They won't do sensible things like ring an ambulance if there is a problem. When dad fell out of bed in the middle of the night (not as far as I know drink related) they knocked up a neighbour who once worked in a care home rather than call an ambulance as they didn't want to be a nuisance

• DS (7) is their only grandchild. He stayed with them this week. Generally had a great time and I am v happy for him to go there but... They taught him to be a "wine waiter" and top up grandad's glass without spilling a drop. I know this will sound silly precious fussing old cow, but when I saw him doing this today it just didn't feel at all right.

So that's why I'm concerned.

I want to be an old soak. I plan to go back to drinking and smoking till my heart's content once I get to around that age and I hope it kills me quick, too.

I'd say leave them to it.

I'm going to be having fun, i can tell you.

Well I wouldn't be happy about my grandchild being there either, if things have reached this state, so I do see why you're worried.

And I wouldn't say that you are a precious fussing old cow either!

But sadly, if this is the life that they have created for themselves, then it's difficult for you or anyone else to change it.

Have you tried talking to them about it? What do they say? If they understand your concerns then you might be in with a chance of changing things - but it sounds unlikely.

expat - you will have picked up, I hope, that I am in two minds about this. Part of me thinks good luck to them. I drink a lot and enjoy it (thanks mum and dad). Part of me can see that my dad has probably suffered from depression for quite a lot of his life and drink is a way to cope with it. He takes a cocktail of medication for numerous ailments and if he wasn't someone who has a melancholic tendency in the first place, I bet the drugs have made it a lot worse.
Part of me just worries that they will do something stupid like burn the house down or fall down the stairs because they drink too much. A grown man falling over because of drink is not a good thing whether he's 30 or 82. But the 30 yo might bounce.
I don't really propose doing anything. But it does worry me.

Well, I'd not let them in charge of my kids, but having been a depressive now for some years, tbh, I want something to finish me off once I get to certain age.

I hope I'm long gone by 82, tbh.

BIWT - he's my son, their grandson. He is the APPLE of their eyes and unless I thought he would come to harm there, which I really don't, I wouldn't stop him staying with them - it works well for him to stay for three or four days in the holidays, but I don't stay there with him. (Don't ask, I jst can't stay). I think they are more sensible when he's there, but the wine waiter thing did get to me for some reason. As did my dad pissing in a bucket because he couldn't face walking upstairs. We had been out at lunchtime for his birthday meal and dad had only had one pint of guinness, so he wasn't half cut. However he couldn't be bothered to tackle the stairs. Fortunately I distracted DS from that delight.

Not sure now why I posted in the first place as I don't really feel there is anything to do here - I have talked to mum who veers from total abstinence to rather a lot of gin/wine/sherry. She is "disgusted" by my father. But she's been married to him for 52 years and virtually force feeds the booze down him to keep him quiet.

for you.

But if I were you, I wouldn't be leaving my son with them.

oh expat. I really hope you don't keep on feeling like that and you'll prob feel differently at 81 and a half

When DS is there my mum is sensible and doesn't drink. I feel ok about him being there and he clearly perks them up. She would be horrified if anyone suggested that she did have a drink problem. It's when they are on their own that it all goes a bit pear shaped.

Think I'll sign off now. Thanks for your thoughts all.

Sorry but it sounds as though it works well for you-your son can stay with two very elderly people with health problems but you can't. Alcohol aside, I question whether any people of this age should be expected to look after a such young child. He may be the apple of their eye but they are too old to have him stay.

I am sorry to read of your parents.

You need though to take your blinkers off and see this for what it really is. Denial is very easy to slip into in these situations, your parents are certainly well in denial about their alcohol intake and affects.

What is your man's opinion of your parents?. I only ask as he has not been mentioned.

I would not be sending my son there either for him also to be acting as their "wine waiter" amongst other things. That is not on at all. You yourself can't stay with them for reasons you have not stated (that is your perogative) so why is it therefore okay to send your son there for a few days?. Not a price worth paying.

I would argue that the alcohol does not give them any pleasure at all; they have become physically and mentally dependent on it.
Alcoholism problems amongst elderly people is certainly not unknown although not widely discussed within society. Alcohol and depression are two uneasy bedfellows; the alcohol itself acts as a depressant and it sounds like they've both been self medicating with alcohol for years.

I would argue that both your parents are alcoholic or at the very least have long standing problems with alcohol. They both have problems with alcohol and it is affecting them. Your Mother although "disgusted" by your Dads behaviour has remained with him and has been enabling him by providing him with alcohol.

You cannot change them but you can change how you react to them. You need to do that for your own self. They will not listen to any concerns you have so talking to them will be a complete waste of time. You can help you and by turn your son though.

I would seriously consider talking with Al-anon about your parents in your particular circumstances. You cannot help them but you can help your own self.

Blimey there's a huge amount of ageism on these boards sometimes! 78 and 82 is not too old to look after a small boy. BUT I do think it's a bit odd that you won't stay with them and yet you are happy for your DS to.

I sort of agree that it's up to them if they want to drink from dawn till dusk but even if your mother doesn't when your DS is there, it sounds like your dad still drinks heavily and I would feel very uneasy about that personally.

Well, I didn't come back and post again last night as my mum came home (pissed) from the pub.

You can't say anything, people of that age certainly won't listen. You can hope that they are not pissed when in charge of your son. The wine waiter thing would totally bother me, too. But, well, I don't know, I think that people who drink might drink a bit less when looking after children, or have some idea that they are responsible. My DH is an alcoholic (3 month's sober - wonderful now!) and he would only get pissed once DD was in bed, not during they day when he was looking after her. So it's your call really. (but having said that, if you are leaving your son with them overnight you might want to think about what if the house catches fire or something like that - would they be sober enough to get the boy out of the house? that was always my argument with DH but he never cared about that as it's pretty unlikely to ever happen. But I used to say, "what if the neighbour's flat caught fire and you have to get out and you are pissed?")

one last comment though. We, and our parents' generation, survived parents who drank and smoked and all sorts. the era we live in now people are so much more health aware. my parents left me with my alcoholic grandmother for 2 weeks when I was two. they never though anything of my gran babysitting and she used to drink a lot. we just are more aware now, that this isn't such a good thing to do. but the likelyhood of the house, or the neighbour's house, catching fire is still pretty slim; maybe we just worry too much.

Good luck

OP, I really wouldn't send your grandson to stay with them. I stayed for a week with my Granny when I was about 8, and was terrified when I woke up one night and found her drunk and incoherent. She was a big sherry drinker, and obviously in retrospect, an alcoholic. I didn't know what to do and considered hiding under the bed and putting a pillow under the duvet in my place, I was terrified she was going to hurt me in some way.

To finish that story, I told my mum, and my granny really cut down on her drinking after that. At her funeral ten years later a close friend of hers told me how very sorry she (my granny) had been about that episode. I think it might be worth having a word with them re your son. As for what they do when you're not there, there's not much you can do about that.

I would absolutely leave them to it.

I can't think how you could possibly mention it to them without sounding well, a bit patronising really.

As long as they're not driving about over the limit or falling over having accidents. At that age if they want to have a few drinks then I'd say nothing.

My parents both drink far too much as well. Frankly I wouldn't leave the dcs with them, but it's complicated by my relationship with them and that my dad has a violent temper and my mum has dementia.

All.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Midlandsmum: I don't think they're too old! Mum in particular is young for her age in outlook although a bit wobbly on the pins. DS takes this in his stride and behaves differently with her (he's gentle and helpful, and not boisterous).

Attila, thank you for your post. Lots to take on board there. There are many reasons I don't stay there, but mainly logistic - they have a small house and don't share a bedroom, so if I stay over, my dad moves out of his room and back into Mum's. I don't really like sleeping in his bed and more to the point it's very disruptive for them. (also I don't like their dogs, the temperature of the house, the need for constant TV at all times, the reading out of choice snippets from the DM and so on - I could go on). Of course to DS, dogs + TV all the time is boy heaven. And since he's only there for a couple of days at a time in the hols, that isn't going to hurt him.

Not sure what changing my reactions to them would achieve, though. They aren't roaring drunk/abusive etc, although my dad clearly drinks far more than is good for him. Can't see that my attitude could alter their behaviour?

mommycat - sorry to hear about your mum. Interesting point about changes in what is "normal" over the years and that we worry too much. I agree with you, they aren't likely to burn the house down really, as they don't smoke, don't have candles etc and I have banned the deep fat fryer. In fact they threw it out. Mum doesn't really drink much at all now, although she could if she felt like it, but she's very careful of everything when DS is there.

Thank you all again, this is difficult to talk about.

NTSAT,

Re your comments:-

"Attila, thank you for your post. Lots to take on board there. There are many reasons I don't stay there, but mainly logistic - they have a small house and don't share a bedroom, so if I stay over, my dad moves out of his room and back into Mum's. I don't really like sleeping in his bed and more to the point it's very disruptive for them. (also I don't like their dogs, the temperature of the house, the need for constant TV at all times, the reading out of choice snippets from the DM and so on - I could go on). Of course to DS, dogs + TV all the time is boy heaven. And since he's only there for a couple of days at a time in the hols, that isn't going to hurt him".

Yes but he's 7 and 7 year olds are very perceptive. He probably thinks something is amiss here but cannot properly express his concerns being just 7 years of age. You certainly cannot let him think that acting as their "wine waiter" is somehow normal. You were disturbed by this; it did not sit right with you.

How many of his friends are acting as "wine waiters" to his grandparents?. Probably none. Infact I would say that none of his friends are acting as so called "wine waiters". Your Mum did not discourage that did she - she as a person is supposed to be "disgusted" by her H's alcohol problems. I don't think she can deal with your Dad at all (have you ever thought about getting them a care assessment through SS?) and has taken the attitude that, "if you can't beat them join them". She has enabled him to the nth degree doing her own self (and by turn you as you grew up in this house) no favours either. Providing him with alcohol as she has done (to keep him quiet and perhaps also to self medicate his depression) is enabling; all that has done is given her a false sense of control. Self medicating with alcohol as they both have done has led to dependency. Also alcohol itself acts as a depressant and can make depression worse.

For all those reasons I would seriously reconsider letting him stay overnight at that house.

"Not sure what changing my reactions to them would achieve, though. They aren't roaring drunk/abusive etc, although my dad clearly drinks far more than is good for him. Can't see that my attitude could alter their behaviour?".

You realise that your Dad drinks far more than is good for him. Its not about changing them (that'll be a complete waste of time so don't go there) but instead readjusting your own attitudes to their behaviours. You can change how you react to them. As previouly mentioned Al-anon are worth talking to, in your circumstances I would certainly ring them.

Thanks for your second post, Attila

I have found all this very good food for thought. I won't continue with this thread as I have to go off and think about all this. But I do appreciate the thoughts.

Two things:

Yes, they have just had a SS assessment for their physical needs. Very helpful, for both of them to maintain independent living.

I am probably being dim, but I still don't see what re-adjusting my attitude to them would achieve. I am going to put a stop to the wine waitering (which I think was a one-off in the context of being helpful - DS does lots of little chores like feeding the dogs, helping with shopping etc when he is there and I think this was probably "oh can you pour his wine" rather than anything more) - however I wasn't happy with it and I should be able to get that stopped. However it's not feasible to see them without staying there, and I don't think I would want to break what is clearly a very valuable relationship to them and DS without very good reason.

It sounds to me that drink is the very antithesis of a "pleasure" to your dad ...

Reading is a "pleasure" for me. Even if I could, I don't think I'd do it from waking till bed time and I think if it was causing falls and bruises I would consider cutting down. If I couldn't cut down, I might start thinking I had a problem ...