Dreadful snoring - possibly sleep apnoea

[PrimroseHall]

DP and I have just had another huge row because of his snoring. I know it's not deliberate, but I'm angry because he's not done any of the things recommended by the hospital, and it's as if he relishes in making it harder for me to live with.

It's been 2 months since his appt. and he was told to get a gum shield to bring his bottom jaw forward, use a decongestant nasal spray and try to reduce his BMI. He's bought the gum shield, but can't use it because it requires him to breathe through his mouth and he can't do that because his nose is blocked. He's been to the chemist 3 times and has come home with the wrong things - 1st, a Stop Snoring mouth spray, 2nd, Stop Snoring nasal strips and 3rd, Halls throat sweets . I'm sick of finding the fucking gum shield all over the flat. I don't know why he can't just put it away in it's box, it's doing no good anyway and was just a waste of money. Oh, and he's gained half a stone since his appt

He generally ends up sleeping on the sofa, but not after I've had to shake him awake. Then it takes about 10 minutes for him to wake up properly, during which he's confused and talks nonsense, tries to lie back down, pulls all the covers off the bed, thinks there's an intruder etc. I sometimes feel like I could kill him by the time I've got him into the living room.

It's not just the snoring either, it's the sweating, scratching and passing of wind that makes him totally revolting to sleep with. His pillows are damp and smelly and the sheets on his side have blood droplets on where he scratches so aggressively. The sheets have to be washed daily and I resent the extra work when it could be prevented by him wearing breathable cotton pyjamas (or something) rather than falling into bed with all his clothes on (I'm serious btw).

He seems to be asleep ALL the time as well! He's up at 5am for work, gets in about 2pm and goes for a bath. I get back from the school run at 3.30pm and he's either crashed out on the sofa or he's still in the bath, fast asleep. I wake him up when I get in as it irritates me that he's either slobbering over the sofa or stopping people from being able to use the bathroom. We have argued so many times about why he can't make it to the bedroom, and he says that he has no intention of falling asleep so he doesn't bother. Apparantly he has no recollection of dropping off to sleep - it just happens . Then he drifts in and out of sleep all afternoon and evening. I constantly wake him and shout at tell him to go to bed, but he tries to lie and say he was only resting his eyes. Of course I know he's lying because he's been snoring, so I tell him this and he apologises and explains that he was watching the tv and must have just dosed off. I think this is true, but it's no less irritating for me. He's usually in bed by 10ish, but he doesn't actually say he's going to bed, just wanders off and doesn't come back. I'll find him on/in bed with all his clothes on. When I ask him why he didn't get undressed he'll explain that he didn't mean to fall asleep (again), he was just resting and must have dosed off.

He even fell asleep in the waiting room and had to be woken by hospital staff when he went for his sleep disturbance appt. Again, I'm not joking - it's in the letter that was sent back to his GP. He thinks this is hilarious, I think it's embarrassing and babyish. It also really worries me that he could fall asleep while driving - he's a delivery driver so driving all day at work.

He even fell asleep in the waiting room and had to be woken by hospital staff when he went for his sleep disturbance appt. Again, I'm not joking - it's in the letter that was sent back to his GP. He thinks this is hilarious, I think it's embarrassing and babyish. It also really worries me that he could fall asleep while driving - he's a delivery driver so driving all day at work.

Last night I felt unable to control myself whilst lying next to him in bed. I wanted to kick him and was boiling with rage. He went quite a for a few seconds which means he's going to start snoring really loud soon, and when the big snores came I sat up and shouted "I can't fucking stand this anymore'. He jumped out of bed, fully awake, and went into the living room. We've barely spoken today, except for me to tell him that he needs to find somewhere else to sleep - not the living room, bathroom or bedroom. I suggested the car, but I wasn't really serious, just angry and very tired. He then went to the chemist and bought the Halls throat sweets and presented them to me as if he'd achieved something huge and I was going to be impressed with him. That's what has caused tonight's argument. He's now gone to another chemist to try and get the nasal spray that he was told to get almost 2 months ago - fucking ridiculous in this weather and at this time of night. What's one more sleepless night on top of thousands anyway.

Just marking, will read in morning

Oh my God. I had no intention of posting a message that long. I just wrote it all out and then previewed to edit it down to a reasonable size. Pressing preview now SENDS the post - it doesn't give you a chance to edit!

If you manage to read all that then thank you. Sorry about the errors. God, I feel embarrassed that I've written about DP as if he's some kind of farmyard animal rather than the nice man he actually is when he's awake. I'm just feeling very sorry for myself and pissed off with being constantly sleep deprived. I do actually love him very much, although it sounds like I hate him

Right, have read it now as didnt want to leave you unanswered. It really does sound like he has a problem with dropping off (stating the obvious I know)
He needs to speak to the gp asap about this as he could end lives if he falls asleep at the wheel.
Does he sleep on his back?
Have you tried using earplugs?

You sound like a woman driven to the absolute end of her tether by sleep deprivation. He has to comply with the diet etc prescribed by the hospital, because his condition is very serious. Some folk with sleep apnoea are waking hundreds or even thousands of times a night, so they never achieve any level of deep, relaxing sleep at all (neither do you). This makes his job of driving rather dangerous, and really he should be off the road.

He's also at greatly-increased risk of stroke, heart attack etc but if he's gained half a stone since being told to lose some, that might not be that important to him.

Thanks SLKOMH. Sorry about length of post.

The GP referred him to a sleep clinic and he had some tests. The results indicated a high likelyhood of sleep apnoea, but more tests are needed before a diagnosis. Apparantly he has lots of crusty residue (sorry if TMI) up his nose, leading to him having to breathe through his mouth - hence the need for a nasal spray. He also has a very big base to his tongue and big neck (18.5 inches). His tongue is getting lodged in the back of his throat and combined with the inability to breathe through his nose, I suppose it's inevitable that he's making so much noise when he lies down.

He's all over the place at night. Snoring is worse on his back, but it's still impossible to sleep next to him whichever position he's in.

I haven't tried earplugs. I'll pick some up. I wonder if I should get a pair of those muffs used when operating road drills

Thanks OldLadyKN. Yes, the weight gain has really annoyed me. He's gone up to 18 stone which also has a consequence on his knees. He's got arthritis in his knees caused by an old sports injury. He's only 35 years old, but it's like living with a worn out old man.

He's snoring on the sofa now, so I'm going to try to get some sleep. He's back to work tomorrow and DS's school has re-opened so I'll be able to catch up during the day. I think I feel particularly wrectched because of the enforced long weekend which has just meant prolonged sleeplessness for me.

I do feel sorry for him though. I know it must be crap for him being tired all the time.

To be fair, if he has sleep apnoea, it is almost impossible to lose weight as it raises the leptin levels and makes you keep weight on. DH's consultant reckons that telling someone to lose weight is pointless before treating their OSA as they very, very rarely can

He's falling asleep in the day as he may be waking up hundreds and hundreds of times a night and not getting real sleep. When DH goes to see his sleep consultant there is always someone asleep in the waiting room, and we saw someone fall asleep in less than 30 seconds from sitting down.

Disturbed sleep, scratching etc is very common with OSA, as is irritability

I'm suprised they told him to buy a gum shield, as to work properly a mandibular advancement device has to be custom made.

He really needs to push for the rest of the tests as soon as possible so that he can get treated properly.

My DH has lost 4 stone since he started on CPAP, feels 100% better, stays still in bed. Oh, and best of all, he doesn't stop breathing 87 times an hour, and is no longer at huge excess risk of having a heart attack or stroke due to the OSA

Thanks cmot. I couldn't sleep last night and ended up back on here searching through old posts on sleep apnoea. I found some of your posts about your DH and felt very bad after reading them.

We've spoken this morning and have both apologised - me for being a bitch and him for not doing all that was recommended at the hospital.

I think it's possible that DP has misunderstood the MAD advice. He lost the web address that the hospital gave him but thinks he's got the right thing. Going by how confused he's getting over the nasal spray, I doubt he has got it right. For all I know, the web address may have been for arranging a fitting - I just don't know.

I agree about the weight loss as well. He's so lethargic and unenthusiastic about everything, obviously because he's so tired and miserable. It's hard to get my head around the 'waking up' thing, as to me, the periods of silence followed by outbursts of grunts and snorts and accompanying flailing of arms and kicking were indicating that he was fast asleep while I was boiling over with anger at him disturbing me. I know I'm not being fair, honestly I do.

He has promised to chase up his follow on appt. with the hospital this afternoon. He was offered an appt. a few days before Christmas but his boss wouldn't let him have time off. They may have told him to phone or sent a letter that's been mislaid - he might not remember what they told him as that's pretty typical with him. I know his next appt. is to pick up the monitoring equipment to use overnight. I know he's anxious about this - performance anxiety I suppose. Perversly maybe, I want the test to show that he does have a problem because at least then we're getting somewhere. We haven't shared a bed peacefully for almost 8 years and I'm at the end of my tether.

Did your husband do the test at home or was he monitored at a clinic? It's fantastic that he's lost 4 stone since starting using the CPAP. DP could do with losing about the same. You must be feeling a lot less anxious and better rested now that you're not panicing about him stopping breathing during his sleep. 87 episodes an hour sounds horrendous.

Thanks for the info and for giving some hope.

DH did the test in the clinic.

OSA sleep is weird - they drop straight in and out of REM sleep, which is why you get the flailing/kicking at the point of apnoea exit - but they never get properly into deep sleep for very long which is why it's so tiring.

You could phone the nurses at the sleep clinic and ask them to tell you what should have happened after his appointment.

TBH, as I always knew that DH stopped breathing before I was with him (long story), it never worried me. Even the snoring wasn't too horrific till we had DS as I am a very sound sleeper - but I never knew how much he did apnoeas until the study. DH is weird as he has always done it, even when he was super slim though.

The CPAP has made a major difference to our lives, and DH is now evangelical about getting other people to get their OSA treated

DP has always snored too, but I don't think he was having these apnoeas when I first met him. His snoring wasn't much of a problem until he gained a lot of weight when he started driving as a job. Before then I could just push him on to his side and he'd stop for long enough for me to get to sleep. When he started the new driving job I was pregnant with DS and found it unbearable to share a bed with him. I don't know if that was because he was having apnoeas or if I was just sleeping lighter. After the birth we all shared a bedrom until we moved when DS was 3 - during this time I either stayed awake at night or slept on the sofa. I got really depressed over it.

He did lose a lot of weight when he became a postman, when DS was 6 months old. He was obviously fit, but the sleep problems didn't improve. I don't know when the apnoea episodes started. I only heard about sleep apnoea from a Billy Connelly DVD and it ws after that that I noticed what was happening with his breathing. It may have been there all along and I just thought it was his particularly style of snoring. It's frightened me to learn that he's more at risk of stroke and heart disease.

I will demand strongly advise him to phone the hospital when he gets in. I think he'll do it because he's realised after my outbursts that I'm desperate for a solution to this. If he doesn't I'll call them. I think he may be worried about going further with tests in case it affects his job. I was surprised to read that it's compulsory to inform the DVLA if you have sleep apnoea. I suppose he could always go back to delivering on foot though if he has to. He'll definitely lose weight if that happens so maybe a bonus in the long run.

Thanks for your help cmot.

Dh was advised by the sleep clinic that as they would start him on treatment as soon they diagnosed his sleep apnoea he could keep driving. But as soon as you are diagnosed, you must be compliant with treatment else the DVLA can take your license away.

I think it sounds like he had OSA all along and that you have noticed it more, and its been exacerbated by the weight gain.

Tell him that my DH is more than happy to talk about OSA if you want to CAT me

It sounds awful - poor you! Poor both of you, in fact, since I'm quite confident he's not doing it on purpose and it can't be much fun to be unintentionally irritating the hell out of the person you love night after night.

I don't know the first thing about apnoea, but I did accidentally find a way to clear my nose and stop snoring myself: I learnt Buteyko breathing to sort out my asthma and one of the things that they recommend is to put a bit of micropore tape over your mouth at nights (lots of asthmatics, myself included, are habitual mouth-breathers). It seems counter-intuitive, but even if you've got a horrible cold and are all blocked up, taping your mouth and forcing yourself to breath through your nose will completely clear it. Anyway, while I started taping my mouth at nights in order to sort out the asthma, one very positive side-effect has been that my husband reports that I've gone from being quite a noisy sleeper to being almost completely silent. He tapes his mouth himself now, when he has a cold, and says it really helps to clear his nose and makes him sleep much better. It can be rather claustrophobic to begin with, but if you stick with it it's great - I find it difficult to sleep without tape now! You could always use it in conjunction with those funny little Breath Right tapes that you stick over the nose to open the airways as well.

Anyway, I realise that not everyone would be willing to try this - my FIL is a terrible snorer and absolutely refuses to try it despite my enthusiastic evangelism! But I thought I'd let you know anyway....

Thanks so much for the offer. I'm sure I will have lots of questions when we get round to him being monitored and (fingers crossed) a definite diagnosis. That's very kind of you

I know exactly what DP would want to ask if he happened to bump into your DH - how did he cope with having the tube put up his nose during the initial tests? It makes my eyes water just thinking about it.

That's reassuring to know about the DVLA. I'm sure he would comply with treatment once it's been confirmed. I think it will give him a boost to know that this is not just a snoring problem as I think he associates that with being oaffish and unappealing. The letter he got from the hospital made him sound repulsive, it was all about his fat tongue, big neck, high BMI, crusty nose etc. I think it upset him actually, and I haven't been very supportive either.

Thank you Januarysd. I will suggest that to him. Even if he won't try it I certainly will next time I've got a cold. I absolutely hate breathing through my mouth at night and I've just been reading about how unhealthy it is and how it's the cause of bad breath on another site, so it's a good thing to know. I've always got a decongestant nasal spray in the bathroom cabinet, but I don't think it's such a good idea to it as often as I do.

I'm chortling at the image of you and DH both taping up your mouths at bedtime. Anything for a peaceful night though!

I know - it looks completely ridiculous! We have amusing conversations where I mumble through the tape and he tries to work out what on earth I'm on about...

Primrose.. just to let you know that I going through the same thing. after cmotdibbler's post to me on a similar thread only about a week ago, DH saw the GP..(again) but this time got referred to sleep clinic.. to which he attends in 2 weeks time .. they are doing the home test thing.. but dh is really bad and I can see them getting deffinate results from it tbh.

cmotdibbler you are a star .. we're still in the process here.. but at least DH and I aren'y at each others throats so much .. as something is being done.. light at the end of the tunnel.

< hands huge bunch of flowers to cmotdibbler ... and coffee and empathy to Primrose>

Oh, I'm glad we've all found each other now. I'll look out for you in a couple of weeks to see how the appt. went.

I agree about not being at each others throats so much once something is being done. Most of my anger last night was due to feeling stuck in this miserable situation and seeing no solution. It's probably due to his tiredness, but I still do get so cross at what seems like a very thoughtless attitude by DP to this. I think he does need me to explode at him sometimes just to make him completely aware that I'm utterly sick of it. He's probably so used to feeling tired that it doesn't feel abnormal to him, and he's obviously not aware of how disruptive his snoring is and how anxious the non-breathing periods make me feel. Actually the silent non-breathing is worse because I know an outburst is on it's way.

Good luck to DH at the sleep clinic. Will it be his first time there, or has he had the initial tests and is going back to pick up the monitoring equipment?

BCNS - so glad to hear that your DH is getting on with things

first time for the tests... I am really quite upbeat about it all..

I so know exactly what you are saying.. it's comparable to lack of sleep when you have a breast fed newborn screaming all the time.. but you then look through the dark at this flipping great man.. it doesn't stand well at all.