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WORMS! What the heck am I meant to do if I can't take the meds?

26 replies

fadingfast · 17/10/2008 21:03

DS and DH both seem to have worms . Don't know yet if I have them or not, but the medication we have (Ovex) says it is not suitable for pregnant or breastfeeding women. I am BF DD, so what am I meant to do? If I don't have them then presumably nothing, but what happens if it turns out I do?

Yuk yuk yuk.

OP posts:
wonka · 17/10/2008 21:17

I took it while BF the midwife looked it up in the breast feeding book and said its not liscenced but its safe! both my boys got in when baby 6 weeks old.. its as common as nits! LOL

Elibean · 17/10/2008 22:42

Ditto Wonka, but if you're worried take Pripsen (piperazine, not mebendazole, sort - you can get both) instead. I took it while pg on recommendation of OB consultant, because dd1 had suspected worms and I was freaking out.

Good luck, I sympathize with the yuk factor and the onslaught of cleaning/washing!

pumpkinscantdancethetango · 18/10/2008 00:41

wash everything, will help prevent them. and if your really careful with hand washing etc then they should die out themselves anyway as not getting back in. (in theory, inpractice very hard i know)

solo · 18/10/2008 02:05

I took Pripsen in August and I'm still bfing. They don't recommend it, but they don't believe it does any harm either.

Sazisi · 18/10/2008 02:30

I could be wrong, but I think eating lots of garlic can eliminate the feckers.
Or just ask your gp what to take. The health risk of having worms (ie loss of nutrients, I assume?) might outweigh the risk of the medication

wehaveallbeenthere · 18/10/2008 02:46

(sigh) Hate worms. What kind? Hook? Pin? Tapeworms? You aren't doing anyone a favor by not taking what is prescribed. Especially yourself. If they get into your organs...liver, heart they will do irreparable damage. Unfortunately, people can carry them about and not know it.

solo · 18/10/2008 10:09

It sounds like threadworm whabt. I don't think I've ever heard that they can get into your major organs and you usually know you have them because you can feel them when they come out to lay their eggs.
Tapeworm do that dpon't they ~ get into your organs if left untreated?

jenwyn · 18/10/2008 10:17

Very good hygiene-hand washing lots and not putting hands near mouth are essential. You dont need to take nasty medicine though.I have fond that the old remedy of blackcurrant jam -eaten 'neat' is just as good and many times more pleasant.

solo · 18/10/2008 10:57

How does blackcurrent jam do the job jenwyn?

solo · 18/10/2008 10:58

blackcurrant

jenwyn · 19/10/2008 01:16

Umm Im not sure how exactly it works Solo .It seems to repel the little blighters and they don't come back unless reinfected.
Worked for me

wehaveallbeenthere · 19/10/2008 03:09

Tapeworms reside in the gut...lay eggs in segments, can lodge in other areas. Pinworms can go to your organs...you know you have them because they look like little threads on your rectum. When a child (or adult) has them they will come out at night in the dark from the flesh and the child will have a horrible itch on their rectum. So you may see them scratching or digging in their sleep. You have to look with a flashlight in the dark because the light makes them retract. They are a contact parasite. They will go through your flesh.
So will hookworm. Roundworms look like white rubber bands (usually not transfered to humans) in a mucus from dogs that are infected. The only thing I can say is see a doctor because a lot of the "old ways" didn't kill the worm. It just made it go where it wouldn't be noticed and you have to kill the eggs as well.
The last time I read about old home remedies for worms was something about starving yourself for 3 days (only water) and then placing a bowl of milk and honey in the toilet. The tapeworm will come out through your rectum seeking food and hopefully you don't break it off (segments).
The other "cure" was quinine and it almost kills you anyway. See a doctor....take the pills and ask if you need the rest of the family to take pills also.

emma1977 · 19/10/2008 12:23

I prescribe pripsen for anyone pregnant or BFing with worms.

Remember, the whole family needs treating at the same time.

The old wives tales about tempting the worm out with food and then winding it around a stick are all cobblers!

wehaveallbeenthere · 19/10/2008 17:10

Actually they aren't. My grandmother did that with a tapeworm with my now deceased uncle. They are both long gone but the tapeworm can become quite long. This one did break off as they are segmented anyway I wouldn't give much to getting the whole worm in that fashion.
See a doctor, they will identify the worm and prescribe the correct medication.
emma1977 is correct. Ask if your family needs to take a prescription too. The doctor may have to see them depending on the worm. Some aren't passed from human to human. Some are...such as pinworms. Most are easily treated but you need to get it right.

wehaveallbeenthere · 19/10/2008 17:13

The quinine isn't either. It's used for malaria...my husband has had malaria at least twice when he was a child.

slayerette · 19/10/2008 17:23
wehaveallbeenthere · 19/10/2008 17:46

lol, slayerette is correct. I love "House" and there is a whole season that literally made me ill.
Parasites are something everyone has to live with. There is a new one out (sorry don't recall the name) but it goes to the brain and causes aggression, depression and suicidal tendencies. They discovered it in mice when the mouse wouldn't run from the cat. Perfectly healthy mouse in all other aspects.
I can't remember the percentage of people they think has this but I wonder how many suicides if autopsied they would find it in.

solo · 19/10/2008 23:03

The possibility of the pinworm(threadworm)getting into your organs is minute and rare. They don't go through your flesh. WHABT, you could seriously panic people with that kind of misinformation.

The first you know of them is the itch. I knew immediately I had them back in August. You never forget that feeling.

This is from Wikipedia.

The pinworm lives in the lower part of the small intestine and the upper part of the colon. It is found worldwide, and causes the most common infection enterobiasis in humans. Unlike many other intestinal parasites, the pinworm does not usually enter the bloodstream or any other organs besides the intestines. Only in rare cases pinworms are found in the vagina, and even more rarely in the uterus, fallopian tubes, liver, and peritoneum, but the worms cannot survive long in these places.

The human pinworm Enterobius vermicularis is a ubiquitous parasite of man, it being estimated that over 200 million people are infected annually. It is more common in the temperate regions of Western Europe and North America, (it being relatively rare in the tropics) and is found particularly in children. Samples of Caucasian children in the U.S.A. and Canada have shown incidences of infection of between 30% to 80%, with similar levels in Europe.[1]

wehaveallbeenthere · 20/10/2008 02:34

solo, I'm not trying to panic anyone. They did this to a missionary friend I knew (lived by on a Navy base ) in Okinawa. Her sons had brought home a puppy and it had pinworms. They got them stepping in the mucus feces of the puppy while playing barefoot. They passed it to my son and the military doctor had to treat us as well. The worms in the meantime did go to the mother of the boys organs (about 6 months after). Yes it is rare but it does happen and yes they do go through the skin. Ask any qualified vet.
I don't expect you to take my word for it. Do your research. I can only tell you my experience. You can take it for what it's worth or ditch it. Up to you.

wehaveallbeenthere · 20/10/2008 02:41

The worms don't live long anyway. But they do lay eggs and they do go to the organs if unchecked. That poor woman felt like hell. She didn't remember the incident until we brought it up one day. Okinawa has a lot of open sewers...and the vet services aren't very good off bases. She never would have found this out if she didn't ask about it to the base doctor. While I didn't have the itching our son (now 22) did. The doctor said we all had to be treated because we would have got it too.
Again, do your research by asking a doctor. Don't depend on something you find on the web. Just because it is posted on the web doesn't make it true.
Only a doctor can tell her what parasite she has and how to treat it. While she is at it she can ask about pinworms. The doctor will tell her.

wehaveallbeenthere · 20/10/2008 02:48

You don't think 30 percent to 80 percent is high? I think it is but I don't know if the percentage is accurate. Where did they take the samples from?
I know in Texas there are a lot of roaming animals. Whenever we have an animal introduced into the house we get it checked out by a vet. Our older border collie didn't have worms. Our younger one did. I've been around all sorts of animals all my life and know most get some sort of parasite from its mother. The worming capsules you can buy aren't usually enough or may actually harm a dog or cat.
Some of those parasites are transferable to humans, some are not. Again, don't take my word for it. Ask a trained professional (doctor). I can only share my personal experience.

solo · 20/10/2008 12:33

I don't think dogs get pinworms, I've had dogs for most of my life. I think it's tapeworm, hookworm, roundworm and whipworms only. I will ask my good friend. She works with dogs.

30~80% is the number of humans having threadworm, not the percentage of people getting infestation in their organs whivh is rare.
Pet worms in human hosts

Animals have their own "animal-specific" forms of the roundworm, hookworm and whipworm. The transfer of these types of worms to humans is rare and is most likely to involve young children who play in areas such as parks and sandpits.

Domestic pets do not usually play a significant role in the transfer of threadworm / pinworm (Enterobius vermicularis). If the eggs become attached to the fur or hair of the pet then they can be transferred when they are patted. The risk of infestation, however, is no greater than touching any contaminated surface. Washing your hands after patting animals will reduce the risk of contamination

The roundworm eggs and hookworm larvae that are found in animal excretion can still infest humans. On rare occasions, the canine whipworm, Trichuris vulpis, which is host-specific to dogs, has also been discovered in humans. The roundworm and hookworm larvae will be unable to develop properly and complete their life cycle in a human.

Hookworms are host-specific but a human can still be infected if canine, Ancylostoma caninum, or feline, Ancylostoma braziliense, hookworm larvae penetrate the skin. When the larvae form of both cat and dog hookworms infect a human the result is known as "creeping eruption", cutaneous larva migrans (CLM) or dermal larval migrans (DLM). The larvae will be unable to complete their migratory cycle inside a human but they move just below the skin causing intense itching, inflammation and snake-like sores for weeks or even months until they eventually die.

Animal roundworms, or ascarids, such as Toxocara can infect humans but they will also fail to complete their life cycle, remaining as second stage juveniles. Toxocara canis in dogs and Toxocara cati in cats can infect humans via the faecal-oral route. The eggs are sticky and can collect on the hands or accumulate under fingernails, resulting in them being accidentally ingested by humans. The larvae that are supposed to mature in non-human hosts will hatch in the human intestine and can penetrate into other tissues or organs, causing complications.

Toxocara canis has a higher frequency than Toxocara cati. This is because almost all puppies are infected with toxocara at birth and it only as they become older that they develop an immunity to the parasite. Hormonal changes in the pregnant mother appears to stimulate the migration Toxocara canis larvae into the foetal puppies, where they mature within the bowel. Young puppies may continually contaminate their entire litter and have infective eggs stuck to their coats. Cats, on the other hand, often become infected with Toxocara cati by ingesting the larvae in the tissues of mice and other hosts.

Young puppies and kittens contribute most to the contamination of the soil with toxocara roundworm eggs, although the eggs must incubate for about two weeks in the soil before they become infective. The eggs themselves are hardy and can exist in the soil for a long time, even at temperatures of minus 25 degrees Celsius. Direct contact with an infected pet does not generally cause the infection to be transmitted to a human. The chances of an owner becoming infected with roundworms after being licked by a kitten or a puppy is actually very low but it is still a good idea to wash your hands and face after playing with a pet.

Human toxocarosis falls under the broader category of visceral larva migrans (VLM). It results from the migration of toxocara larvae within the human body. When a human ingests infective toxocara eggs it can cause VLM where the worm larvae, which is about half a millimetre in length, migrates through human tissue. This most commonly includes the lungs, the kidneys, the liver, and the brain. This damages the organs, creating nodules and causing an eosinophilic inflammatory response. The process may continue for a long time because the worms can live for several years. The symptoms of this disease are difficult to ascertain but can include an enlarged liver, weight loss, intermittent fever, a loss of appetite, or a cough. It may also result in asthma or pneumonia, especially if the worm larvae damage the lungs. VLM seems to be most common in young infants aged 1 to 4 years old.

solo · 20/10/2008 12:44

Sorry, that was longer than I thought it'd be.
If threadworm were contracted from animals, then I'm pretty sure that there would be more fuss made about it by HCP about hand washing because it can do this if you pet animals or have animals in your home.
There would be far more publicity about threadworm being passed on from animal to human because of the fact that you have cats/dogs and other pets in your home.

wehaveallbeenthere · 20/10/2008 16:45

I understand. My experience was from a neighbor. I take all my animals to a vet regularly for testing. Again, I'm just relayng my experience.

wehaveallbeenthere · 20/10/2008 16:49

Okay, speculation. With that percentage of people having threadworm. It being so "contagious" and not everyone having the itching. Once it is in the system, do you think that perhaps the incidence of it going to the organs is higher than reported?
Because unless you ask specifically for testing of that it will be missed. Humans can harbor all sorts of parasites but unless you actually ask for testing they go unchecked.
Just conversation...not trying to panic.