Candidiasis/'leaky gut' treatments on NHS - are there any specialists and can you get referred?

[cluckyagain]

Hi - seriously hoping you lovely gals can help. I've been diagnosed by a nutritional therapist as having candidiasis/leaky gut and had 5 months of radically altered diet to try and get rid. Although it's become much less severe monthly/permanent thrush, last month it came back badly and I am now aware that I may have to go on the awful diet again. My problem is that I am gluten free anyway (due to the leaky gut we think - only started getting gluten symptoms 3 yrs ago) and the 'anti C' diet is so appallingly restrictive (veg, brown rice and very small amount of fish/ org chicken allowed ONLY - no exaggeration) that I get no end of grief from others about it - dh, family, friends and all think it's perfectly acceptable to quiz me/lecture me on my health, weight loss (I'm not exactly fat at the beginning which really doesn;t help!) etc and I'm sick of it!! In addition, the supplements are extremely expensive and we can't afford for me to take them all again. I am at a loss as to where to go now. I can go back to my nutritionist, who is lovely and a friend anyway but really - HELP!!

Anyone?xx

This won't be what you want to hear.

If you think you're ill you should go and visit your GP. A 'nutritional therapist' is totally unqualified to give you medical advice. Why are are you listening to his person? Anyone can set themselves up as a nutritionist / therapist / whatever, as it's not a regulated title, and many of them seem to genuinely believe that they can advise on health matters - they're deluded.

'Leaky Gut' is not a medical diagnosis, it's a condition invented by quacks in order to sell treatments. No doctor would diagnose this.

Candidiasis is another favourite quack diagnosis. Candida is the fungus which causes thrush. If you have this it can be sorted with an over-the-counter anti-fungal. 'Systemic Candidiasis' is a more serious overgrowth of candida which is only seen in severely immune-compromised people; If you were ever in any condition to get this you'd be dead by now.

This nutritionist may be your friend but he/she hasn't done you any favours. Take control of your life and get to the doctor's.

Just my 2c. Quackery makes me

Thanks for the answer single white. I am aware of the 'non-medical' diagnosis and have been to the GP on numerous occasions before for a now totally unresponsive thrush - no treatment works now as I've had it for almost 20yrs. Where do I go from here then - NO antifungal works so what do you suggest? (the GP has now tried every one on the market so please don't suggest that she just try a new one - there aren't any!)

Hi cluckyagain

I should make it clear that I'm not a medical person, i just have an active interest in pseudo-scientific beliefs - especially the current vogue for 'nutrition'.

Since you've had recurring thrush for the last 20 years and your GP hasn't been able to help, I would think you would have no problems getting a referral to a specialist. Have you asked? You're not going to get a referral for Leaky Gut because that's not a recognised medical condition, but you should get help for the thrush. Have you been tested for diabetes?

Just my opinion, but I would forget everything you've heard from your Nutritional Therapist and certainly not buy any more expensive supplements. Also try to get back to a less restricted diet; it's clearly not helping.

If you want more opinions on referrals it may be worth posting another message on that topic as I think the current thread title might be putting people off.

Hi - thanks singlewhitemale. I hadn't specifically asked my GP for a referral for the thrush as I had presumed that she have offered one if available - perhaps not. I will do that though. No diabetes - tested during pg's.

Thanks for the advice by the way!

lol at the 'vogue' for nutrition. Have you got share's in the BiG Pharamas. Louis Pastuer hero of the medical world invetente the rabies vaccine by squishing up rabid bits of dog and putting them in rabbits brains, and thats good?

Clucky - its what we put into our bodies that hurts or heals them, its well known or the gov would not spend millions of pounds telling you to eat five a day.

Hi Cluckyagain -

I went on an anti-candia diet for about 2/3 months to get rid of ME.It did help me a lot but is frigging awful to follow.

You need to eat a lot of pulses/ take vitamins/ have a little bit of fruit everyday(a little bit won't stop it working- far more important than getting scurvy)/quinoa/polenta/tofu/seeds/nuts (not cracked if I remember correctly)

I also took some coconut stuff (it was about 4 years ago and I have a rubbish memory)that broke down the candia and made me feel truely awful as I took it (I can't remember the name of it but take it VERY easy if you take it) and had high doses of that 'good bacteria' for your stomach.

I followed a book that unhelpfully I can't remember the name of.

poor you ( I remember crying in Asda coz I was so ill and couldn't eat a single thing in about 5 ailes in a row!)

take it easy and don't go to restricted for long you will cause yourself more damage than good-

an NO antibiotics!!

rice might be gluten free, but you might want to check on your pancreas, coz that's also responsible for digesting carbs and if carbs are not fully digested then you will have carbs fermenting further down, contributing to candida

Thanks Beeper,Noonki and nightcat. I am going to go to the GP and ask for a referral to a dietician - hopefully then I will please everyone!! xx

You will always have bacteria digesting carbs in the gut, because we don't have the enzymes requied to digest Cellulose, a major component of cell walls in plant material. The bacteria we have in our gut do have the right enzyme.

this is quite normal, and required for a healthy digetive tract

gosh. I was well and truly into allt he anti candida diet stuff about 20 years ago and it was hellish!

Basically you can't go the extreme route with it. it's hopeless.

The fact is that as long as you eat a balanced, low sugar diet with plenty of good stuff (omega oils, natural things, wholegrains etc) you can't really go wrong.

It is all about balance and I would suggest cutting suagr and white bread etc, but not too much else - keep a balance that seems reasonable and things should sort themselves out. You could take a good multivitamin as well to boost your immunity and wellbeing but that's as far as I'd go.

I was stung by a quack as well, supplements no self respecting horse could swallow and it didn't work.

Bloody rip off actually.

Please don't go there again. Just work on the other parts of your life, confidence, sport, and stop stressing the fine details as it is a bottomless pit. You will feel better I promise! This stuff is Not The Answer.

HTH xx

And try to rtemember that your buts are very strong and will sort out their own balance given half the chance. Cutting out everything is almost like taking an antibiotic imo - it gets rid of everything and then it still has to build up the correct eco system again afterwards so a bit crap really

Let your body sort itself out.

Guts sorry! Baby jumping on keyboard...

Pushpinia - thanks for the message. Unfortunately I was on a normal diet for several years before the anti candida diet and then have been on a normal diet again for the last 11 months. The thrush has come back with avengeance in the last month - no changes, very little processed food, no bread (can't cope with gluten at all now), low sugar etc so I'm afraid my body has had 20+ years to sort itself out - it seriously doesn't want to! I wish I was only stressing the fine details but as of the last 5 weeks I can't have sex with my dh and I'm well and truly fed up of GP's etc saying it will go away - it isn't and it hasn't and nothing I do seems to make it want to.

cluckyagain - I was in your shoes many years ago (pre children and pre marriage, though I met dh whilst I was v. ill). I did the incredibly restrictive diet and the masses of supplements, did it for nine months, gradually reintroducing things and watching for a reaction. I have been very lucky - after nine months I was clear and my ME was under control as well. But - like you, GPs were worse than useless, told me to stop malingering basically (by which point my weight had dropped to six stone) - a friend of my mum's who was training to be a nutritionist sorted me out.

I really don't have any advice for you as it was such a long time ago and I have forgotten the details (!) - though I do remember that I had to cut out all fruit to begin with, not even natural sugars in my diet. And I used to bake my own soda bread (yeast free). So sorry you are going through this - it's so isolating, I remember that. I got so pissed off with explaining to people what I couldn't eat, and I hated the attention because of it.

Clucky I am really sorry if I sounded dismissive - I think I might be in denial about how much sugar I eat these days!

I can't think what to suggest...I am so sorry you're going through this.

Clucky - has your GP done a sawb for Thrush that came back positive? In the absence of a condition knackering your immune system it seems strange that it is so persistant. I'm wondering if it is Thrush or if it;s Thrush plus an infection or dermatological condition. You need a referral to a dermatologist or gynae or both who specialises in vulval conditions. Hope you can get sorted.

Pushpinia - you didn't seem dismissive, only kind! You and me both on the 'nothing to suggest'.....boring isn;t it!

Miaou - yes, it's the attention and constant justification that I hated (and really want to avoid again) Yup - the diet was truly awful and hopefully never to be repeated. MOst impressed at home baked bread - I seem to remember that you are the guru of home baking and home economics though?!

Northernlurker - oh yes, loads of +++ swabs. I will go back to the GP again - poor lady is sick of me (as am I!)

Thanks all
xx

Oh I wasn't at the time though clucky - it was a case of needs must though!

Sorry I can't give you any more concrete support/advice though. The traditional health system is not good at dealing with candidiasis IME, and it doesn't seem to have improved

Clucky just one little thought - has DP been treated for thrush as well? He might be giving you it again and again.

Push - dh was treated a couple of weeks ago as we suspected/wondered too (sub clinical though as he only seems to have symptoms after being with me if I'm symptomatic) Who knows. Harrummphh!

There is a paeediatrician who specialises in candida/ leaky gut and autism and I can't remember his name! I will go away and have a think.... He's an NHS consultant and also practices privately. Although a paediatrician I'm sure he would know who medically qualified does take this seriously (and there are increasing numbers - and there is more and more peer reviewed scientific research on things like clostridia and leaky gut - I spent a lot of time talking to a Canadian doctor/research director about it recently- again wrt to autism though). The Canadian guy did say to me that we all need to be eating a lot more yoghurt - a joke perhaps but I think a point about the usefulness of probiotics.

It's Mike Tettenborn - this is really old but I know people still go and see him (although his waiting list is massive now!) I think he uses anti-fungals as a first line then follows up with??? not sure. It might be work sending an email to him/his secretary to see if he could suggest anyone.

Another person is Dr Natasha Campbell McBride. Again she's a medical doctor. Her book Gut and Psychology Syndrome again focusses on autism and leaky gut but it's relevant for non-autistic cases and she does give a diet and a way of ridding your self of yeast. She sells probiotics as well, which having looked into it I felt were the best around (we use them). Her diet is a bit mad (she's russian I think and it features a lot of beetroot ) but it's wide and healthy and I think easy for an adult to follow (hard with my son).

This is a summary of a very nice paper (again coming from Canadian researchers) about intestinal permeability that was published in Gut in 2006. Gut's a pretty highly respected journal in the gastro field. It's not about Candida as such - again more of a mention of the Clostridia but it is about the effects a leaky gut can have.

The author himself looks as if he might have other useful information.