Do you think it's possible to lose the will to live?

[Rhiannon]

What I mean is actually make yourself die?
My DH's granny died last night, she'd had a couple of strokes b4 Christmas and was in hospital actively saying she no longer wanted to live. She refused visitors except her children and didn't want to talk.

Do you think it's possible to put yourself in such a mental state that your body shuts down?

I think I believe that some people know when its "time to go" rather than wanting to die or giving up. My FIL died in April 2002 in much the same way having suffered kidney failure. He stated that he did not want any more treatment and fought off the medical staff. In his case he would not be able to get better just kept going for a short time. So he decided not to eat much and not have treatment and died after a fairly short time. I do believe it was his decision to go then. My dh found this hard as he wanted his df to fight to live but I remember my grandma deciding she didn't want to carry on living when she was in hospital 15 years ago and I felt that I understood her point of view. I think its very sad but not tragic when someone has come to the end of a full life.

Sorry to hear of your and DH's loss

I think it's possible.

On the front of the local free paper last week was a local Rotarian. He's often in the news - aged 91, he's often getting awards or appears for raising money. But this was his obituary. He had died just after Christmas - two days after his wife who had finally succumbed to cancer, IIRC.

I've heard before of couples dying close together, they used to say of a broken heart and I wonder if this was the same?

Not sure about if you're not already ill though.

So sorry to hear of you dh's Granny's death Rhiannon.
I have talked about this with dh, as we live in a remote rural area he manages all his terminal patients at home as much as he can to save them a long trip to hospital, therefore he has watched a lot of people die.
He is certain that you can decide when you have had enough, and when you just haven't got the energy to try any more. He was providing palliative care for a lady over Christmas (she died, of cancer, on 27th December) and she said to him on Christmas day 'I'm just so tired, I can;t try any more', and that was when he knew and told her family that she had days to live. Likewise, only this weekend an elderly man refused to go into hospital, even though he needed treatment for a gut problem, because he told my dh 'This is it,and I don't want to die in hospital'. Dh didn't actually think the chap would die, but only hours later he took to his bed and passed away before teatime - only 6 hours form when he had been seen by dh.
I don't know if people make themselves die, but I really think people know when their time is up.
People who can do this often die in a far more dignified, comfortable and pain free manner than people who fight and get angry about death. I don't mean that you shouldn't fight illness, but that there comes a point where fighting is futile. For example, dh had a patient in the autumn who was dying of cancer, and was really bitter about it and with her family. It took her about 3 times longer to die than was expected, and in all that time she was in a lot of pain - she was taking more morphine that dh says he has ever given out, even when he was a hospital doc. Once she talked things over with her son and sorted out the fight, she was pain free and died within hours, peacefully and with her family round her.
Being married to a doctor who takes all of this on has really made me aware of death, and of how people die. And of how so many people know that they can't fight it any more.

Rhiannon, I'm sure that some people can "switch themselves off", but don't know how they do it!

Many years ago I worked on a ward where an elderly lady had been an in-patient with a chronic condition for several months. The condition wasn't in itself terminal. One Friday afternoon, when I looked into her room, she said, "I'll say goodbye now, dear, as I won't be here on Monday". I just thought that she was being transferred to another ward, or to a nursing home, or something, and just said "Bye Mrs X". When I returned on Monday morning, I was told that she had died in her sleep on Saturday night/Sunday morning. I felt a little spooked by that for a while, but now I just hope that when my time comes, I'll be able to do the same!

I'm sorry for your dh's loss.

Rhiannon,

I'm sorry to hear of your husband's loss.

My grandfather died last autumn of fairly swift but nasty cancer. Towards the end he had had enough and wanted to die. He asked my aunt to help him go, and when she told him she couldn't he just turned his face to the wall and lay there waiting to die, which happened very soon after. I'm sure his state of mind hastened his death, but as he so much wanted to go it was in reality a blessing.

At my age and with 2 young children, I find it almost impossible to imagine being at a place in my life where I wanted to die, but my grandfather (not a religious man) seemed very calm and unafraid about it all.

Rhiannon

Sorry to hear about your loss. My father in law died last week in hospital and he had definitely lost his will to survive.
He was a very strong man, definitely head of the family and until end November battled on, he lost his wife four years ago and although he was heartbroken he wouldn't be defeated.
A week before he went to hospital he wasn't managing to get out of bed and last monday his granddaughter said to him "See you tomorrow, granddad" and he replied "you really don't understand do you?. Sure enough he died shortly after midnight. Another thing was that he was unable to lift his arms above elbow height because of hard work and heavy lifting. Shortly before he died he gave my dh, sil and bil the thumbs up and raised his arms in the air circling them around. I'm sure that there is something in all this.

Thanks for the messages, it does make interesting reading. Funnily enough we spoke to DS about granny yesterday whilst we were walking around a graveyard and that she didn't have much longer. I told him after school today that she'd died and he took it very well, I think yesterday's talk helped him. She was 92.

I also think that people wait until the right moment to die. My FIL died just before Christmas - he had had a stroke and was deteriorating slowly. DH had not gone down immediately as we live at the other end of the country and really did not know what to do. He finally flew south after a few weeks and although his dad was not really able to communicate by then, he suddenly told one of the nurses that his son from Scotland was there - he died the next day. It was almost as if he had waited to see DH.

Also when our beloved son died four years ago DH and I sat with him all night - I lay on his bed with him and then at about 7.00am left the room for a break. Although his condition had not really changed over the past 24hrs he died 10 minutes after I left, in his dad's arms. Although I felt terribly guilty at the time, I now believe that he waited until I wasn't there as he knew I couldn't cope with it. My husband has been haunted by the moment of his death (even though it was very peaceful) and I am just thankful that I do not have that to bear.

Love and thoughts to you Rhiannon

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I DID try to make myself die a long time ago, when I was seriously depressed. I don't mean actively intervene to commit suicide but I did lie in bed for days at a time willing myself to die. As I was young and physically healthy of course it did not work. Thank goodness, and I made a full recovery.
Don't know if this helps your question Rhiannon but I thought I would add my perspective/experience.

AnnieMo so sorry to hear about your son. I won't ask questions, tell us if you want to.

bonio, glad to hear you're OK now.

We have the funeral on Monday so have got to sort out the children now, my DS wants to come but I've told him children don't go to funerals and he must remember her as she was at half term.

Rhiannon, do what you think is best for your ds, but I think children can go to funerals, if they are prepared. If he knows what is going to happen and that many of the adults will be very sad for a while, he may well be fine, After all, he took the news of his granny's death well. When my MIL died, we took dd(still a babe in arms), but her cousins then 4 and 2 went as well. The older one seemed to understand what was happening, behaved very well, and tried to cheer up some of the adults by giving them hugs . They said afterwards that the presence of the grandchildren lifted the proceedings somewhat.

Hope Monday isn't too bad for you all.

Tissy, I'd rather he was at school to be honest. I hate funerals and get upset even if I don't know the person.

Rhiannon and kkgirl, so sorry to hear of your loss.
I believe that people definately can decide when it's time. We sat with my mum for 3 days and nights, as she deteriorated, we all knew it was the end, but she just kept going. On the evening of the 4th day, my aunty had to tell her that my uncle, who lives 300 miles away, wasn't going to be able to make it to see her, as one of his children was ill. Literally a couple of hours later she died with all of us there. I strongly believe that once she knew that she wasn't going to have the chance to see her brother, she decided it was time. I also believe that my grandma, her mother, who is 88 and going strong is also the sort of person who will decide when she's had enough. She really hates people fussing over her, and I'm sure that when she gets to the point that the fussing gets too much, that will be it.

I haven't read all this thread but yes, my grandma definately lost the will to live. She always had in her head that she wanted to make it to 85 and as soon as she did she just went downhill - stopped eating, caring and so on. 5 months later she died. In some ways I am glad she went that way, as she was only in hospital for a few weeks and as I was sorting out psychriatic (sp?) assements for her and where she might move to (she only wanted to go home) she passed away. I feel very sad thinking about her and miss her very much but I am so glad she made the decision to go.