Help re vaccinations

[charlie01]

My DS is due for his MMR next week and I really don't know what to do. I have researched the MMR until it's coming out of my ears but I still don't know what to do.

There is a strong history of autism in my family (brother and uncle in immediate family alone) and my brother has always suffered with bowel problems. My mum is certain that his autism is not connected to the MMR however I think she is very concerned about the prospect of her grandson being given it.

I must say overall, my gut instinct is to go with the MMR, I have a doctorate in research and my scientific brain(!) says it is the right thing to do. However it's so different when it's actually your son and I know and have read about so many people who are absolutely convinced that the MMR is what started their DD/DSs autistic traits.

I feel like I am in a lose lose situation, if I dont vaccinate him I run the risk of him catching measles which as everyone knows could be fatal however if I do vaccinate he could suffer the side effects (namely autism)

I just dont know what to do. I don't know what I want anyone to say either, I'm not really sure why I've typed all this! How does anyone ever make a decision?

I was really hoping to get a reply from him as well- was genuinely interested in the justification he would give for his interpretation of the patent application.

Thanks for all your thoughts. You'll be pleased to know I'm definitely no clearer! BTW alwayssaythankyou, your reply was very intense!

One interesting point raised though was about the single vaccinations, I'm still not clear on why the thought is to go for singles rather than the MMR? Just wondering whether you think that the single vaccine is less likely to be a trigger for autism?

I've found my HV and GP to be very pro MMR however TBH they can't manage to convince me either way as I suppose, like has become apparent here, there is simply no clear cut answer that applies to every child.

I too am at that point when I need to be thinking about mmr and don't know what to do. Ds has had all his other jabs and is fine. He didn't even really have any sort of reaction, was a bit spaced out for acouple of hours but that was it. Any one who has had single jabs what sort of money can we expect to pay to have them done and how do you go about finding somewhere that does offer them. I'm really not sure what to do. Like you charlie I'm not that convinced either way. When I first had ds I was so sure I would have the singles and I probably am still leaning to that way more than the mmr but really sure.

Just like to reply by saying new mums are indeed very vulnerable and are most "at risk" to succumbing to vaccinations. They walk into a surgery with the most precious thing they have, in their arms and are told they would be putting baby at risk by "not" vaccinating. New mums are the target of the vaccination scare tactics of doctors and new mums are the ones who should be absolutely sure that they are doing what is right for their baby. Once your baby is injected, you better be darned sure you did the right thing, because you cant take the injection out!

Its not a game playing with vaccinations, they are for life. God forbid your child should suffer badly from an injection, your decision has to be made "from the heart" but also based on sound science. I have read the threads here and I see no science. I see emotive responses which may or may not have emanated from the scare mongering we have listened to for the past 20 years, but no scientific fact. I made my decision not to vaccinate my kids after reading a few articles. Just a whiff of potential harm I might have caused to my kids was enough to put me off. I wasnt willing to take the risk. Now some of you may say its a greater risk not to vaccinate. In my opinion, it is not. Perhaps some of you know that polio was virtually eradicated before the polio vaccine was even invented. Diseases run a course and polio was on its last legs. Furthermore if your immune system is compromised you are more likely to get disease. The idea of messing with a baby's perfect, yet unformed immune system with the intention of making it "better" is nonsense. For anyone who disagrees, please read the research on how vaccinations actually work, the theory behind how immunisation prevent disease. It dosent make sense. I live in an area with high rates of autism. Where is this autism coming from?? It is not a disease as such, its not catchy, but what is causing it? Since when is measles a life threatening disease the way it is made out to be? The stats prove that dying or suffering irreversible damage from measles is very very rare and in fact many cases of measles and mumps are caused from the live vaccine. Go figure. Finally, there is nothing wrong with strong opinion with an issue like this. CHildren every day are being put at risk. It makes me so so very sad when i go to the GP and see new mums with their beautiful perfect babies injecting them without really knowing the facts. They have thought about it, yes they have thought about it and worried about it, but they are not given the facts. And no, I personally have not experienced any bad side effects from vaccinations because no one in my family has ever been vaccinated from the 60's onwards. And, by the way, we are all healthy, with no major disease. OUr immune systems were not compromised and we developed our own antibodies to disease, the way nature intended.

alwaysaythanku, you're totally entitled to your opinion and I have no problem at all with people who chose not to vaccinate - after all, it's their choice.

But to be honest, there's no science in your argument either (you say there's no science in any pro vacc argument) and I would much rather my children were protected against diseases like MenC and other forms of menigitis (with this new jab coming out) than not. Again that's my choice.

Nobody knows why autism is on the rise. I wish they did but they don't. People like Andrew Wakefield have been hounded out of the country for even daring to do research and now there's a culture of mistrust amongst parents as to what the NHS/government say. I only hope that more independent work is done in this area but in the meantime, everyone has to make their own personal choice as to what they think is best for their child. My choice is to vaccinate.

Think the last few posts say it all. You have to do what you feel right doing (not what you are told to do by a GP or us health visitors). For some that decision is not to vaccinate, others choose single vaccinations and many others give the MMR. Personally, I think you should have this choice without being made to feel guilty if it goes against the grain.

Mandy

charlie- the MOD recommended that during the last gulf war strapping great bootnecks should receive jabs singly where possible This is because of the apparent possible link between giving anthrax in combination with other jabs and developing gulf war syndrome. For some reason anthrax vaccine behaved differently when in combination.

As regard the MMR there is appotential problem in that mumps alters the permeability of the blood brain barrier and measles lowers immunity. Would you like your child to catch wild type measles, mumps and rubella at the same time? HOwever the numbers whose autism is likely to have been MMR triggered is very small- just sucks if it happens to be your child.

One interesting thing (well I always find it interesting) is that gulf war vets with gulf war syndrome and autistics often have the same compound- IAG in their urine. IAG suggests that their membranes are more permeable than normal, so things that wouoldn't normally pass into the blood stream do, and things that wouldn't normally cross the blood brain barrier do. My autistic son has IAG in his urine.

My HV visited this morning to meet ds3 for the first time. She took out the vax leaflet and said "well I have to give you this" then laughed and said "I take it we're leaving them"

For a wonderful essay on the danger of vaccinations see CRY OF THE HEART go to: www.alternative doctor.com/downloads/Cry_of_the_Heart.pdf. This is a 35 page document written from the viewpoint that children are precious, vulnerable and have more to them than just being a pin cushion and is written by a doctor Dr Mark Sirius. I have never seen the vaccination argument layed out so concisely and so emotively. Dr Sirius talks about vaccine production, and contamination as well as the whole agenda behind vaccinations. Here is an excerpt:

There are many things doctors and nurses have traditionally done to rip us away from the pure vulnerability of the moment of our birth, they have hung us upside down and spanked us, taken us away from our mothers before we could bind with them, and shined bright lights in our faces.
Making it cold and clinical in operating rooms as opposed to warm and natural in settings that facilitate feelings of safety and security; but what waits is a quantum level more disturbing to our vulnerability. Today it is standard procedure in the first hours or day of our life to penetrate our bodies with a hypodermic needle which manifests on many levels the first
basic experiences of uncaring, helplessness and fear. At the moment of our birth we are confronted with something that holds a threat to our life, with a potential for an early death (for some) for we are injected with nerve toxins
that can quickly accumulate and lead to severe neurological damage. Certainly it is a stress and a hurt that makes us scream to the high heavens
but the doctors and nurses smile it off as being normal. Their base line of normality is thrust on our vulnerabilities and often sets the stage for much disruption of health in our very young lives. Babies and young children are
totally at the mercy of their environment, they are totally vulnerable, but slowly loose this after years of being repeatedly hurt and misunderstood. We slowly loose the vulnerability of being as we erect our ego or mental
separate self. When Christ said that we needed to be born again he was referring to the reversing of this process. He was talking about re-contacting this hidden vulnerability, the innocence and natural trust of our beings.

The following is a link to a complete (and free) guide to homeopathy as an alternative to vaccination. Very very good read but beware, its kinda long.

www.alternative-doctor.com/downloads/Homeopathic_Vaccination.pdf

charlie01, it's my understanding that it is the combination in the MMR that makes it dangerous. That is why we are going for singles. Ds has had several jabs to date, always one at a time and very spaced out and delayed compared to what is generally recommended. I am relieved to say that thus far he has had no reactions of any kind. It is such a heartwrenching decision - Do I give my child something that may make him sick or do I leave him vulnerable to a disease that could have been prevented? My brother is a physician and stated without question that he saw a significant decline in childhood meningitis after the vaccine came out so that was the first one we got. A lot of the other diseases aren't so common anymore, but with a husband who had polio as a child and a brother who is partially deaf from rubella, I did not feel comfortable with leaving ds unvaxed. It all boils down to your personal experiences and feelings, plus all the research that you can stand to do!

ruty- no apparently can't be done- I asked when ds2 was born. Not sure why- but I think because the IAG shows af ter the damage is done (???) could be wrong about that- may be because the IAG only shows later or something.

I'm faily happy with my decision not to vaccinate now so I haven't really persued it, if I decided to vaccinate int eh future it would be worth checking to see if the test could be done though.

just got it ruty- think any gut damage from fucidin is unlikely (did he have something like fucidin-h) Topical treatment is much safer and localised.

I've just been filled full of iv antibiotics after my latest c-section (been moaning about having a funny tast in my mouth- then read in mum's BNF yesterday that's a listed side effect of the antibiotic!) SOmetimes you have to be unless yoou have very strong convictions that you shouldn't be. Luckily they help off giving ds3 anything. Really wouldn't worry about cream.

Did you ask go about blood? Sometimes it can come from a cracked nipple, or a slight anal tear. DS1 has recently had a lot of blood in poo but we think he had a pile or fissure.

should be did you ask gp not go!

Just a little update on my vaccination question, spoke to hv earlier today and she wasn't much use but have managed to get a referral to see the consultant in communicable disease control and district immunisation coordinator. Figured if he can't help answer my questions no one can! Plus I figured at least this way if we decide to go ahead, our concerns will have been recorded. Will let you know how we get on.

Mind you our local guy responsible for vax is ds1's paed and he's useless (and an alcoholic who drink drives). he mutters and doesn't give straight answers (never seen him about jabs- just autism).

I kind of picked this guy! Dr Baxter has been running a specialist vaccination referral service for 20 odd years and organises the national immunisation conference for health care workers so I'm hoping he's going to come up with something useful!

I just found out who I wanted to speak to (searched for consultants in our area) then asked to be referred. They were a bit funny at first but when I politely pointed out they couldn't answer my questions they agreed!

he sounds better charlie!