Will the NHS become partially privatised soon?

[PRFarm]

With the wait time being absolutely ridiculous in A & E do you think the NHS will end up privatised?

For things like minor work injuries that are pretty quick to deal with I think I'd rather just pay a fee to be seen and sorted sooner than spend 10 hours waiting.

The NHs has always been "partially privatised", eg GP's are self-employed contractors who are taxed on their profits.
Dentistry and eye tests have always been chargeable.
Waiting List Initiatives, and similar, have meant that private hospitals have been treating NHS patients for 20(?) years.

So nothing is new. But if the OP means "will citizens have to pay up front for some services?", then hopefully the answer is "yes". It might make people behave more responsibly and not misuse services. Some hybrid of pub.i funded and compulsory personal insurance is probably the answer.

Not sure it will exactly be up to you....

Where indeed! There are countries who use this system and it works to some degree!! It wouldn’t solve all problems but it would be a start as I have said other actions would need to take place. But carrying on as it is and insisting that it has to be free at point of use is insane and completely unsustainable!

Totally agree with you - I think those who can afford it should pay something and that's way better than slipping into an appalling American-style insurance system. I'd love NHS to remain free for those who need it, but we don't live in the world it was created in - people live much longer, but spend longer being frail; there's not generally relatives or neighbours around (all women, let's face it) who can be available to care for someone who needs to be discharged but still has a lot of care needs; and children are surviving premature birth, which is fantastic, but this means more will live with disabilities and need hospital care. So 'always free at source' may not be sustainable. I'd be happy to pay up for at least some services and/or pay an NHS tax as a higher earner so it stays free for those who need it.

It might make people behave more responsibly and not misuse services.

I never really understand this argument. Most people I know including myself barely go to the GP and avoid A&E at all costs because who has the time & inclination for that. People who don't attend GP appointments etc are likely to be the same cohort that would be exempt.

Why do you think this? I’m genuinely asking not being confrontational.

What about anyone who can't afford that?

But carrying on as it is and insisting that it has to be free at point of use is insane and completely unsustainable!

This I totally agree with. But unless we are able to get over the mindset that all over-65s need to be exempt from paying their fair share then the system you propose would never get out the starting blocks.

(I admire your optimism that means-testing could be achieved via tax codes! As in, a system that would require NHS and HMRC admin staff to work together😅)

National Insurance. I would also remove the exemption from Pensioners.

It's anecdotal but I don't know anyone who goes to A&E for no reason or a jolly as you often see on here. If I do get a GP appointment I'm damn well sure I'm going to make it because a) I need to go & b)I may have had to arrange work & childcare around it. If Im at risk of being late I would phone and let the surgery know. Whereas someone who is unemployed is likely less bothered about missing an appointment because they have more free time but maybe i'm wrong.

It already has been for years, catering, cleaning contracts have been outsourced in many trusts for decades - in order to be more "efficient" - the joke of it is that they start well then nhs posts are created to monitor and make sure the private companies are doing their job and loads of time spent in meetings across the trust at all levels when the private companies start cutting corners etc 🤦‍♀️... then a few years later... the tendering process wheel starts again!! Time consuming and inefficient in my experience.

Also, things such as MRI units often run by private companies...car parking too... there are lots of other things I should think.

I get it. But take my in laws for example they are over 65 and can afford to pay - then why shouldn’t they?

my optimist probably stems from the fact that I’m a civil servant and like me there are plenty others in there that are trying every day to just work efficiently and for the public the best way we can!

Im sorry but taxes are already too high. Not another tax increase!

@FiveFoxes I agree pensioners should pay NI but you would probably find more retire or cut their hours so how much would it raise?

Higher earners are already paying a lot of tax when you compare to other European countries. The cliff edges and frozen bands don't help. I don't want to pay more tax out of income.

I get it. But take my in laws for example they are over 65 and can afford to pay - then why shouldn’t they?

Their argument will be a variation of "I've paid my taxes all my life", "i've earned it", "stop the immigrants" & "too much NHS waste". Now some of these things might be true but when you have more over 65s than under 15yr olds, high taxes on workers, wage stagnation and huge amounts of money tied up in housing which is largely owned by the older members of society a free healthcare system doesn't work.

🤣 actually no. They are happy to pay. They actually have private healthcare so don’t really use the NHS but I get what you mean not everyone is going to think that way. And I don’t know how to change the mindset but deeply worried for the UK. Watching the news 🗞️ in the morning has become an anxious endeavour!

It will end up with anyone on benefits getting it free and the rest of us having to pay as usual.

@RaininSummer i sincerely hope not! Every year I hope for a benefits overhaul and every year it disappoints - probably not good
to say this here!

@Ph3 I didn't mean it personally but generally.

Yes. Free at the point of service or something like that.

@wooliegloves no I know you didn’t! I just I don’t know I’m a problem solver in life and don’t like not having solutions I think 🤣. That’s why im not in politics!

😁

It is partially privatised only in a way that delivers the worst value for NHS and tax payers. We are free at point of use but we subsidise the profit of private suppliers. The NHS Trust system is also the worst of capitalism meeting the worst of public sector. No profit-making company would break down into regional hubs and appoint a CEO and board for each of them. The waste is ridiculous.

Would much rather have an insurance system managed centrally by the Health department.

I think a big study of those of our European (not US!!) neighbours whose HC systems work well, quickly, efficiently, and while they may include a co-pay, are fair depending on means.

Countries such as France and Netherlands maybe, I'm sure there are others that people know about. This idea that the NHS is and always was the best in the class will have to change. It never was, and it never will be now.

There are far too many advances in HC now so people are living longer and thankfully are being cured of diseases that once had a few months to live written on them. NHS is strapped and doesn't seem to be able to afford the latest drugs etc. For instance, Mounjaro or other obesity reduction drugs. Not available on NHS so people who can't afford them get ill with obesity related illnesses. Sounds like false economy to me. And there are lots of other examples which others might know about.

I will say that from what I know, the two week fast track for suspected cancer is a great thing. Does it work well, is the follow up quick enough and so on, I don't know.

The subject is emotive. The NHS is part of the fabric of our lives and that is very hard to change. But we'll see.

I can't see a wholly private system ever, like in the US, but I do see a mix of fully private (self funded), contracted private (paid for by NHS), and full NHS in due course, and some of that is happening now anyway.

I think it's likely we will change the prescription system to one in which some medicines are funded by NHS but basic prescription medicines (like antibiotics) will be fully paid by patients.