No to flu vaccine

[CuriousMummyy]

NOT an anti-vaxxer here.. my kids are vaccinated otherwise.

Buttttt there's just something about the yearly flu vaccine. Anyone else not letting their kids get it?

If so, why not?

So much better to trust the feeling of there just being 'something about it' 🙄

The school-based programme offers solely the nasal vaccine. That one sheds, but the risk from that low level of attenuated virus is negligible for the general population.

Household contacts of the severely immune compromised (ie those who must not receive live vaccines themselves) should be getting the injectable. The risk to the immune compromised person is still extremely low, but it can be removed by offering the non-shedding version to all cohabitants

I’ve never had flu and I never get colds either. My work gives the vaccine out for free every year but I never take them up on it. My son had the vaccine at school a couple of times but he stopped wanting it. He very rarely gets ill as well. If I got ill a lot then I’d probably take it tbh

I had flu when I was 14, in bed for 2 weeks, had to crawl to the toilet, slept for 20 hours a day, only woke up to try and drink something, had a raging 40 degree temp and lost a stone in weight. I was ill for another 6 months after that, doctors think it was ME/CFS. As an adult I am now suffering with many autoimmune diseases and I honestly think it was the flu that caused them as my parents and sister don't have any.

So if you don't trust experts, who do you trust?

It's worse than that, op is wrong about those things.

Go back 70 years and we lived in asbestos-filled houses with lead paint, lead in the air from petrol, less healthy diet, plenty of chemicals in everyday products. Sewage almost all put in the sea untreated and drinking water had much less treatment than it does now. Many illnesses you'd survive now would be a death sentence. Lots of people working in industries where they were exposed to toxic stuff day in, day out.

There are problems now but it's entirely wrong to have this 'don't trust anyone, everything gets progressively worse' approach.

Even simple things like using a hairdryer. Plenty of people used to get electrocuted by bad electricity systems or appliances. So we introduced basic standards and now we take it for granted your hairdryer won't blow up or electrocute you. All based on painstaking work by experts over decades. Cars used to have steering wheels that would impale you in an accident. Milk used to have tuberculosis risk. Etc.

@Chewbecca I do trust experts! I'm saying, experts get things wrong sometimes so it can be good to question things. And a reminder, experts can be endorsed. Majority aren't, but it only takes one.

What is it you think experts have got wrong about flu jabs? Why have you spotted something decades of peer reviewed science hasn't?

Critical thinking is great. Not knowing the limitations of your own knowledge is dangerous as fuck.

The schools (here at least) also offer the jab to children, it says so in the letter we received the other day.

But on what basis do you think you’re qualified to question epidemiologists, virologists, public health experts and medics? The arrogance is astonishing.

And you need to learn what ‘endorsed’ means. Your latter sentences don’t make sense.

My son got it.

We get it every year and have never had the flu despite it going around our workplaces and schools. I've seen friends with the flu become so sick so quickly that it's scary. Still unwell months later.

What do you mean by 'endorsed'? I don't think that word means what you think it means...

What are you hoping to achieve with this thread?
You don’t want it, fine. No-ones holding you down.
Our kids have always had it. As adults, they still do. It’s probably saved our asthmatic youngest from serious winter illness several times.
Personally, I’ll do whatever I can to protect my children. You do you 🤷‍♀️

Also wrong. Flu can be anywhere from asymptomatic to ICU and death. The I had flu and dragged myself into work people are idiots because they are just spreading it around when they should be at home and less selfish.

That makes no sense at all. If you are not anti-vaxx and have had all the others, then why hesitate around this one? And it isn't recommended by the NHS and the government - it is recommended by health professionals and scientists who know an awful lot more about it than you do!

By all means do whatever you want because I really don't care enough either way. But at least try to entertain some logic in your approach. And don't come complaining about how awful you feel if you / your children end up with flu - as others have pointed out it is a dreadful illness and not anything like the very bad cold that people commonly describe as "flu".

@CuriousMummyy I do see where you're coming from in wanting to be sure about the recommendation made by the UK immunisation decision panel, but I also agree with the others saying that there needs to be method in adopting critical thinking.

Some questions it could be sensible to ask in any situation, and the answers for flu nasal spray...

Is the decision to give it to children made by one person? Are they experts in their field? Is it behind closed doors?
A whole panel of expert doctors and scientists decide together. The decision is written up in the public space and can be discussed and analysed by other experts if needed.

Is it highly likely to be safe?
Yes, nasal flu vaccine has been given to many children in a highly developed healthcare system that would detect any side effects. It is not new.

Is someone getting rich here?
Well we live in a capitalist world, but there would be zero financial benefit if it harmed children. That would be catastrophic for profit.

Edited for formatting.

I also refused it for years, thinking I was low level risk and didn't need to.

Then I truly understood 'herd immunity' and got my selfish, ignorant head out of the sand and have had it every year since.

But on what are you basing your questioning? What questions do you want to ask?
I'm just looking for any logic / rationale in your argument!

You can’t apply herd immunity to the flu vaccine. It is most important that those who are vulnerable take it, no one vulnerable should be relying on other people taking the jab. Vaccine considerations for flu is not always straightforward compared to other vaccines! https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4387051/ title of study “ repeated flu shots may blunt effectiveness”

Chewbecca · Today 12:29

CuriousMummyy · Today 11:59
** I do trust experts! I'm saying, experts get things wrong sometimes so it can be good to question things. And a reminder, experts can be endorsed. Majority aren't, but it only takes one.

But on what are you basing your questioning? What questions do you want to ask?
I'm just looking for any logic / rationale in your argument

Suspect there is none.

No. Our DD had it when she was 4 and she ended up in hospital. This in turn set off six months' of all kinds of health problems. Bearing in mind, she had not seen a doctor since she was born.

We haven't had any vaccines since - no Covid, no flu vaccines etc....and are all perfectly fine!

This is where herd immunity would protect her.

I was talking about vaccination in general here.

I work is primary school and several of our children were given the needle rather than nasal spray. A couple had it because they have extremely vulnerable parents or siblings at home and several had it for religious reasons - the nasal spray is not halal I believe. All the children received their vaccination in school as part of the normal flu jab programme.