Can it be right that my 90 year old granny might be sectioned because she has Alzheimers?

[twinky]

For some years now my lovely Granny has had Alzheimers and until last week was staying in sheltered accommodation. Since Christmas her condition has deteriorated quite significantly and it was agreed by everyone that she needed full time care. Since she is not at all wealthy the cost is being met by the state. Lat week whilst very distressed she hit another elderly resident with her handbag and cut his head. It was decided that she would be moved that day into temporary care in a nursing home while she was reassessed and a decision made about her long term care. We had by chance looked at a few homes in the area that week and felt that the nursing home she is now in was a possibility since it had lovely, caring staff and experience in caring for Alzheimers sufferers. When my mum spoke to Gran's social worker she was told that her staying there was dependant on her not becoming more aggressive. If she does she will have to be sectioned and put in the local psychiatric hospital. We are all horrified by the idea of our vulnerable and deeply upset Gran being put there and cannot accept that this is the best the state can do for her. Is this likely? Are there any alternatives we are able to request? I would be very grateful if anyone can help. I have to pop out soon to pick the eldest up from playgroup but will check back. Thankyou.

I couldnt not respond to this, as i have been in your very situation. My father had alzheimers and it was just terrible, my poor poor dad went from being a gentle loving man to a man who was so frightened he lashed out at ladies at the home . He wasn't sectioned per se, well at least i dont think it happened that way, maybe he was because he clearly didnt have the capability to make his own decisions. He was admitted into a pyschiactric hospital to try and adjust his medication. Sadly my dad died a few weeks later as he had un diagnosed lung cancer. Had they managed to sort out his meds it would have been much easier. Can i just say that i think a nursing home is better, they have nurses who can administer meds by injection, care homes are not allowed to do this, so refusal of meds were a big problem.

Do contact the alzheimers society they can offer lots of advice and practical help. Im sorry to say that you have to be like a rotweiller with a bone, i found social services worse than useless and we actually had a terrible time fighting them as my father was evicted from his first care home because we kicked up a stink about poor standards of care .

Don't be too horrified about the thought of psychiatric hospital, if she deteriorates to such a point, they are better equiped to give her the care she needs imo - its not a nice thought i know, my dad was only 73 when he died, but i feel i lost him long before that.

Im sorry i dont have a positive story to share, but just the advice to keep on their cases.

They have to decide how to give your Gran the best possible care while protecting other patients and staff. A friend of mine, a nurse, was attacked by a patient with alzheimers and her back was broken. As a result she lives in constant pain and can't work as a nurse anymore - a job she loved.

A psychiatric hospital might be best equipped to care for for your Gran. I suspect my Dad has the early stages of alzheimers too, and don't know what lies ahead.

It is not unusual for elderly patients with dementia to be sectioned, particularly if they will not willingly agree to stay in their nursing home etc - if they are there on a "voluntary" basis, there is little to stop them from just deciding to wander off, putting themselves and possibly others at risk. Even if sectioned, she would not necessarily have to go to the psychiatric hospital - there are more secure residential and nursing homes which can cope with this level of need, though it would depend if there is one in your area which can provide this.

But not all homes are able to deal with this, and can only manage the "confused" elderly, not those who become aggressive or will not remain there willingly.

It's sad that there isn't better provision for elderly patients with mental health problems, clearly your gran needs some speacialist care, and if I were you I would find out your nearest EMI unit and start making loud noises.

Unfortunately when it comes to aggression, a lot of it depends on the size and mobility of the patient as to what the staff feel they can cope with. A tiny, wheelchair bound and very aggressive little person is a lot easier to deal with than a large, mobile and 'merely' unpredictable person. I have had experience with the aggression that comes with Alzeimers and it is truly heart breaking. An elderly lady kicked me so hard in the kidneys while I was doing up her other shoe I had to leave the room because I was crying and nearly sick. When I went back in, she was so concerned that someone had "made such a lovely girl as you cry. You report it, my love!"

It is heart breaking. Go and talk to the managers of your local nursing homes and yes, be like a rottweiler with a bone.

colditz, i wish there were more people with your patience working in care homes. Sadly the home my father was in was staffed by job centre rejects who were only interested in sitting around smoking!! We reported them to the social care commision (or whatever it was called) and they had to make many changes. Thankfully the second home my dad went to was staffed by lovely people who genuinely cared.

I'm so sorry to hear what's happening to your granny and your family. I think the advice to contact Alzheimer's Soc is very good. Services for people with dementia are really variable depending on where you live - so this can affect the likelihood of being admitted to hospital for assessment rather than being assessed at home / in a care home. Being assessed in hospital can have value as someone already pointed out, but I guess the question remains about whether or not it's absolutely necessary in this instance.

The other thing I wondered about is whether an independent advocate might help, putting the case across and supporting your gran. Alzheimers Soc could give you info for your area or social services should be able to refer you. Best wishes.

Hello Twinky

firstly, really sorry to hear about your granny.

I work in this area and I hope I can offer you some advice/reassurance.

It sounds like your granny is currently in a 'mainstream' Nursing Home, ie one that is registered to take various types of clients but not persons suffering from Mental illness/ dementia. Hence they are legally not allowed to keep people who may be aggressive or pose a risk to themselves or others, or need specialist mental health care. Some nursing homes who cater for 'frail elderly' people can and do look after people who also have dementia but only if the dementia is not causing them high levels of distress, agitaion, aggression etc.

If a client has dementia we would always, if at all possible give them the chance to live in a more mainstream home as they are generally less restrictive and 'easier'places to be, for obvious reasons.

It seems like the social workers etc have explained that if your Granny becomes more aggressive they may need to consider using a section of the mental health act to bring her into hospital. Please please do not panic about this as a section can and would only be used as a 'last resort'. There are extremely tight rules and proceedures about how and when a section can be used and if a person is sectioned there are alots of systems in place (much more than for 'informal' patients!) to make sure they are getting a high standards of care, and the section is reviewed regularly.

A section would only be used if your granny was considered a risk to herself or others, and they felt that she needed a period of assesment or treatment in a hospital, and very importantly, she refused to go to the hospital voluntarily . If she did fall into one of these categories and would not voluntarily go then there would be no choice but to use a section as otherwise she would be illegally deprived of her liberty.

Obviously it is difficult to judge but it may be that the people involved in her care may have wanted to inform you of all possible eventualities. It doesn't sound from What you ahve said that a section is imminent at this time.

Have the workers explained why they are considering admission if the owrst comes to the worst? in my experience this is ususally done if they want to assess the condition in more depth or possibly try using medication to help the individual, under the safest possible circumstances.

An alternative to hospital might be an EMI registered nursing home (elderly mentally infirm) but again if she refuses to go they may have to use a section for legal reasons.

It is a deeply distressing prospect and I really feel for you . I can only speak from experience but hospital is not always a terrible place and sectioning is not often like the media seems to portray it.And it there to protect peoples rights as much as anything else.

I think If I were you i would be inclined to ask for a meeting with her social workers and her psychiatrist as soon as possible because there is no substitute for a face to face chat. Does your granny have a CPN? If not it may be useful to ask if she could be allocated one.

Good luck

just wanted to say a big thankyou to all of you for taking the time to respond with such kind words and good advice. i'll pass it all on to my mum and have a think about some of your suggestions. i do feel a bit reassured by the information on her maybe being sectioned. thankyou all.