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Chronic fatigue

75 replies

Hickry · 06/12/2023 11:35

I need to push and try and get my gp to take me seriously. I've been going to the GP with how tired I am for years now and I'm always fobbed off.

Who diagnoses chronic fatigue?
Does a gp diagnose? Do I need to be referred somewhere?

OP posts:
worldwidetravel2017 · 26/07/2024 12:02

OneInEight · 26/07/2024 08:12

I know this is an old thread but I am wondering if anyone has had any success by going private for chronic fatigue. dh has been battling with this for over ten years and I am totally fed up with the NHS fobbing him off and telling him he just has to put up with it. If, and this is a big if given he dislikes spending money, I persuade him to go private will they take it anymore seriously and actually look for causes. Would love to know anybodys experiences positive (preferably) but negative as well.

Went private for private rhuematologist
For diagnosis

Had oT on NHS
Guess you could get a private ot

worldwidetravel2017 · 26/07/2024 12:04

OneInEight · 26/07/2024 08:56

Not what I wanted to hear but thankyou. I think the thing I find most frustrating in dh's case is that three years ago he was given some pills to reduce stroke risk and they, as an unexpected side effect, actually did relieve partially the tiredness for a couple of years despite being told for years there was nothing the medical profession could do. Clearly there was. Now he is sadly going backwards again - not quite reached his lowest point but well on the way. So basically I feel that the NHS does not do enough in eliminating other causes of chronic tiredness before dolling out the "chronic fatigue" diagnosis.

Does he take daily vit d ?
And keep an eye on his feretin

NotAlexa · 26/07/2024 12:17

Do bloods for entire thyroid panel. Sounds like hypothyroidism or diabetes or PCOS.

XiCi · 26/07/2024 12:35

worldwidetravel2017 · 26/07/2024 12:04

Does he take daily vit d ?
And keep an eye on his feretin

Definitely ask for vit d test. Deficiency is not uncommon and can cause terrible fatigue

FlowerBarrow · 26/07/2024 12:37

I believe that there’s no other illness from which the patient will suffer post exertional malaise (which is not the same as “fatigue”).
A patient who’s tired all the time may have a vit D or B12 deficiency, but I’ve never heard of them experiencing PEM which is something totally different.

AgnesR · 26/07/2024 12:40

I have this, triggered by Covid, I have had several normal bloods over last 4 years. Dragged myself to dr yesterday and requested to start Prozac, as there is some evidence that it helps long Covid which can have very similar symptoms. Worth a try? It’s absolutely miserable, and so hard looking after your children 😢

worldwidetravel2017 · 26/07/2024 19:08

Taking daily vit d.
Can help some patients with some symptons

worldwidetravel2017 · 27/07/2024 07:05

XiCi · 26/07/2024 12:35

Definitely ask for vit d test. Deficiency is not uncommon and can cause terrible fatigue

Spring 2023 - my vit d, feretin and b12 were all low @ same time

I felt horrendous

FlowerBarrow · 27/07/2024 07:25

@AgnesR yes it’s really horrible indeed.
Do try it in case it helps, but I’m slightly sceptical of the prozac.
I mean to say, it may help you but only if your symptoms stem from a depressive condition, it won’t do anything for cfs/long covid itself. Plus any depression can very likely be a consequence of the cfs/long covid rather than part of the original symptom set (depression much much more likely to develop if you have cfs/long covid compared with general population).

OneInEight · 27/07/2024 08:28

dh has suffered from depression in the past but at the moment he is too tired to feel depressed! Not that any of the doctors believe this. And of course who would not be a bit low if you don't have the energy to do anything. He has restarted a low dose anti-depressant just to eliminate this. It has not helped in the past.

Vitamin D is a good idea. He spends very little time outside as a consequence of the tiredness so it could be levels are low. He does take a general vitamin supplement but I will check the vitamin D levels in this.

AndTheyWent · 27/07/2024 09:34

I take a high dose vitamin D tablet most days.

I also take a vitamin B12 (or sometimes complex B).

I've suffered with fatigue for 20 years and when I forget to take them it gets slowly worse. I was told back then my b12 was low.

Also I find if I drink a large glass of water first thing in the morning before anything else it helps wake my body up. I also drink a lot more water than I ever did before and I'm sure this helps.

Hope you get some answers to help soon. 💐

FlowerBarrow · 27/07/2024 09:35

Very frustrating for doctors to incorrectly label/treat as depression rather than cfs/long covid.
But I guess there’s a possibility that it’s also present so at least taking anti depressants will eliminate this question

FlowerBarrow · 27/07/2024 09:36

Surely everyone knows that one of the key differences for diagnosis is that broadly speaking someone with cfs/long covid really wishes they could do stuff but cannot, whereas someone with severe enough depression to inflict crippling fatigue will be apathetic and uninterested

OneInEight · 27/07/2024 10:23

Thank you for that explanation FlowerBarrow I will keep the wording for the next time a doctor suggests depression is the cause. To be fair I am usually so enraged by that point by the inference that all dh needs is "A Kickstart", "A Holiday", "A Job" ... (all words of wisdom given by one consultant) that an articulate response is not within my capabilities.

BurnerName1 · 27/07/2024 10:28

Check vit D, vit B and iron levels. Cleanest diet imaginable- think pegan (vegan plus fish). Lots of water. Gentle exercise and meditation. Stick with it for months and years.

Editing to add - lose weight. Protein plus veg and water. Reduce all simple carbs and eliminate UPFs. Inflammation is the enemy.

Swanhilde · 27/07/2024 10:34

I have post COVID syndrome. I take duloxetine 30mg which my GP prescribed as it has been shown to help CFS/ME patients. It is an SSNI.

I was reluctant as yes, my mood was low but I felt that was down to how my condition was effecting my life. However it has been a game changer for me. Cognitive fatigue and brain fog are much improved, as is my nerve pain. Physical fatigue is no different but the improvement in my mood means I am much better able to cope. I have been taking them for 3 months.

I also take a whole raft of vit supplements, incl vits B and D.

FlowerBarrow · 27/07/2024 10:44

OneInEight · 27/07/2024 10:23

Thank you for that explanation FlowerBarrow I will keep the wording for the next time a doctor suggests depression is the cause. To be fair I am usually so enraged by that point by the inference that all dh needs is "A Kickstart", "A Holiday", "A Job" ... (all words of wisdom given by one consultant) that an articulate response is not within my capabilities.

I have experienced both and from the inside the difference is crystal clear, from the outside perhaps it looks the same or similar
Even filling out depression scale questionnaires would give very similar results for both conditions, even though they are totally different.

FlowerBarrow · 27/07/2024 10:47

I believe personally that anti depressants will only be effective for that portion of the symptoms (if any!) that stem from depression. So they aren’t actually treating or improving the cfs/long covid, but another concurrent illness.

MysteryofNils · 27/07/2024 10:47

@OneInEight to quote Maeve Boothby O'Neill 'I only wish I could have been a more treatable patient'

Killed by ME, the terrible illness that divides doctors

www.thetimes.com/article/5c99aef7-7c9b-4076-894e-f492d9ede4dc?shareToken=b6db2fb44bf5ce211384044052b9ffd6

Has he tried a fatigue coach? I have a recommendation if you'd like it. I found it a bit frustrating but I know a lot of people found it very useful.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 27/07/2024 10:54

I’ve had it for 3 years.

The only thing working for me is weirdly Reiki.

Ive tried acupuncture, homeopathy, TCM. They either didn’t work or made it much much worse.

Skybyrd · 27/07/2024 11:13

I have it following radiotherapy to treat cancer a few years ago. At first I thought it was just post-treatment tiredness and would improve, but it just didn't. I eventually had to give up work because I was spending work days and much of my commute time shaking with fatigue and non-work days and evenings resting in bed to recover. My job was very challenging and demanding and DH and I had no quality of life together, so it couldn't go on.

I'm incredibly lucky in that I have a very supportive husband and adult children, but the restrictions of CFS are still upsetting and frustrating. I never bothered to get formal treatment because: 1) my realisation was just before Covid so it was soon difficult to access treatment; 2) I'm actually an OT so I've been able to manage it fairly well, make and follow my own energy management plans etc and 3) My local fatigue clinic is some distance away and I knew that each journey/appointment there wouldn't tell me anything I didn't know and would set me back so much that I'd spend all time resting to recover until the next appointment.

I'm now doing pretty well most of the time, can be busy for several hours a day, including long walks, sleep fairly well and when I overdo things a little I can usually recover overnight. I know my limits and only really struggle if I've been ill and had to be inactive for a week or two. I find that forced inactivity causes a relapse just as much as doing far too much does, so I'm careful not to rest for too long between planned activities. Having to manage my life and activities within such narrow parameters drives me mad at times, but it does allow me to be relatively consistently active and busy.

When planning your day it can help to think of your energy as available 'blocks of time', so 5 x 20 minutes a day, 8 x 10 minutes, or whatever your levels are, with planned rests between using each block. Also remember that things like personal care, eating and so on, need to be included in the energy you expend. It's really worth putting a basic daily timetable together, which you can then tweak until it reflects what you're able to do comfortably without causing post exertional malaise. Then you have a baseline to work from if you want to try to slightly increase what you can do. Also, knowing what you are able to manage consistently is less frustrating than forever overdoing things on good days, followed by several days of post exertional malaise.

Puzzles, online quizzes, informal studying or whatever mental activity works for you, helps with brain fog without putting on additional pressure or (if you stop when you begin to tire) worsening your fatigue.

Research shows that most people do recover to at least some extent and that pacing and energy management are the most helpful physical interventions to aid recovery. It's still shit, but in my case I'd be dead without the radiotherapy (cancer had spread to my lymph nodes), so I shouldn't really complain.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 27/07/2024 11:17

Puzzles, online quizzes, informal studying or whatever mental activity works for you, helps with brain fog without putting on additional pressure or (if you stop when you begin to tire) worsening your fatigue.

These are too tiring for me. Audio books help the most

EmilyGilmoreCardiganEnergy · 27/07/2024 11:29

I hope this isn't a derail but can anyone tell me what the main difference between ME / CF and fibromyalgia is ?
Also MS sounds like similar symptoms but seems to have a clearer pathway to diagnosis.

Skybyrd · 27/07/2024 11:42

EmilyGilmoreCardiganEnergy · 27/07/2024 11:29

I hope this isn't a derail but can anyone tell me what the main difference between ME / CF and fibromyalgia is ?
Also MS sounds like similar symptoms but seems to have a clearer pathway to diagnosis.

CFS and Fibro have some similar symptoms, but Fibro is now believed to be a primarily arthritic, inflammation based condition, so pain is the foremost symptom, whereas CFS can have some pain, but fatigue and PEM is the foremost symptom. Some recent research has shown that CFS might be caused by a malfunction of the mitochondria's ability to utilise oxygen effectively, rather than by inflammation, which was one of the previous theories.

MS is a physical, progressive, degeneration of nerve tissue. There are several different forms with very different rates of progression.

AgnesR · 27/07/2024 11:46

I am going to read all these good tips carefully, however regarding SSRI’s, I have also been loathe to take them as I feel strongly that my condition makes me feel down rather than the other way around. However there is emerging evidence that long Covid may be partially caused by serotonin depletion (which is used in all cells, not just the brain) and that SSRI’s can help with fatigue, brain fog, hyper sensitivity of senses etc rather than just mood.

My symptoms are certainly strongly physical and do not feel depressed about anything other than my physical issues preventing me from caring for my children as I wish to (more sad and disappointed and trying to keep optimistic!)

Swanhilde - I was initially prescribed duloxetine as it can possibly help with the muscle aches, but my own research has suggesting Prozac is the optimum for long Covid. Glad it’s helped though!

I am going to try it as I am desperate. Have never taken antidepressants. The initial article I saw said it was the no. 1 thing that was effective, and this was published by the Johns Hopkins in the USA.

My GP did some research while I sat with her and agreed it was worth trying.