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Original poster

No legal right to time off for medical appointments

35 replies

Undercoverknitter · 28/09/2023 20:20

I think I've always been really lucky - I don't think I've ever had a full-time PAYE role, where I haven't been given paid time off to attend medical appointments, it's either just been waived off or it's gone down as sick.

I've only just learnt (according to the TUC) there is no legal right to time off to attend medical appointments, paid or unpaid! It's just down to what's in your contract and it's really surprised me! Is this news to anyone else or have I just been living under a privileged rock?

It would feel okay if there was evening and weekend appointments available!
Under what circumstances would it be refused? What if it was detrimental to health not to attend? Surely that then should be protected under health and safety? I'm clearly a lot more ignorant than I thought Confused

OP posts:
Original poster
Undercoverknitter · 28/09/2023 20:22

*There were - terrible grammar as well as ignorance!

OP posts:
LaRevolution · 28/09/2023 20:24

Wow, I didn't know that! I rarely need them but if I do I go first thing or last thing when WFH, or just leave 30 mins early. I'm very lucky too I think.

ilovepixie · 28/09/2023 20:24

Your lucky! I don't even get sick pay! I'm off with covid and I I've been told I can't go into work for 5 days and I won't get paid!

Original poster
Undercoverknitter · 28/09/2023 20:35

I think it's the no right to unpaid time off that surprises me the most! How can that be? For hospital appointments? I guess if it was serious enough you'd have to get signed off by your gp to attend - but what a waste of resources that is Confused. I just can't believe hospital appointments are included in this - surely that raises the bar a bit!

OP posts:
lljkk · 28/09/2023 20:39

I've had a lot of dental work recently so this was on my mind ...

My job is very flexitime, though, so on balance, I can't complain.

user1846385927482658 · 28/09/2023 20:41

Yes it's really shit, especially if you're disabled. Then you're really screwed.

But if you're pregnant you're entitled to paid time off for antenatal appointments, even non-medical ones like relaxation sessions.

user1846385927482658 · 28/09/2023 20:43

GP would be unlikely to issue a fit note for less than 7 days without charging a fee.

And if a disabled person got signed off sick for all their appointments, they would be dismissed for their absence levels.

NoWordForFluffy · 28/09/2023 20:46

I always make the time up if I have medical appointments (I have loads at the moment as I'm having physio post-shoulder op and investigations for something else). I wouldn't expect work to let me have the time for free.

MrsCr0cus · 28/09/2023 20:46

I work for a pretty good employer, all things considered, but have to take medical appointments out of AL or flexi. Was news to me too as I'd never encountered this before!

user1846385927482658 · 28/09/2023 20:47

Oh and unless you lose a child under 18, you also don't have any legal entitlement to bereavement leave (neither unpaid nor paid leave) - regardless of the relationship or circumstances.

All you can do is take sick leave / get signed off and hope you don't trigger absence management processes.

And people are surprised that we have high levels of people too sick to work when we have such dysfunctional approaches to supporting employee health

user1846385927482658 · 28/09/2023 20:49

NoWordForFluffy · 28/09/2023 20:46

I always make the time up if I have medical appointments (I have loads at the moment as I'm having physio post-shoulder op and investigations for something else). I wouldn't expect work to let me have the time for free.

Why not though?

Pregnant women get paid leave for their antenatal appointments even if they're not medical appointments. And pregnancy is arguably a lifestyle choice.

Why shouldn't employees with health issues or disabilities also receive the same support?

Achdinnae · 28/09/2023 20:49

I did know this. You're not generally entitled to time off work for routine medical or dental appointments. Your alternative is to go private and get appointments that fit round your working hours or take days from annual leave.

assertiveannie · 28/09/2023 20:51

I did my work EDI training today and one of the questions in it was about time off for medical appts. I could have sworn you can't be discriminated against for taking these in the workplace. Say, eg, you're a menopausal woman who needs to attend a GP appt due to symptoms, they can't sack you for attending those, even if the only appts are in work time.

Redglitter · 28/09/2023 20:53

We're expected to make doctor/dentist appointments outwith working hours but get time off for hospital appts

user1846385927482658 · 28/09/2023 20:55

assertiveannie · 28/09/2023 20:51

I did my work EDI training today and one of the questions in it was about time off for medical appts. I could have sworn you can't be discriminated against for taking these in the workplace. Say, eg, you're a menopausal woman who needs to attend a GP appt due to symptoms, they can't sack you for attending those, even if the only appts are in work time.

If you're not able to fulfil the terms of your employment contract and maintain an acceptable level of attendance and there are no further adjustments that it would be reasonable for the employer to make - they absolutely can still dismiss someone with a protected characteristic.

For example, if you were off sick for cancer treatment (therefore disabled under the Equality Act) and while off sick your employer re-distributed your work and realised/decided they didn't need you anymore - it would be perfectly lawful for them to dismiss you.

The Equality Act provides very little actual protection.

Original poster
Undercoverknitter · 28/09/2023 20:55

assertiveannie · 28/09/2023 20:51

I did my work EDI training today and one of the questions in it was about time off for medical appts. I could have sworn you can't be discriminated against for taking these in the workplace. Say, eg, you're a menopausal woman who needs to attend a GP appt due to symptoms, they can't sack you for attending those, even if the only appts are in work time.

Yes I agree! Maybe there is some protection there. I'm struggling to think of an instance where and why you'd be refused unpaid leave. Maybe that would just be for routine appts during busy business periods or something, but I'd be worried unscrupulous employers would take advantage.

OP posts:
FFSWhatToDoNow · 28/09/2023 20:56

Ambulance crew/police officers/fire crew for one set that can’t just take an hour out of a shift for a medical appt. They tend to work 4 on 4 off though so should be able to arrange outside of working time.

FFSWhatToDoNow · 28/09/2023 20:57

assertiveannie · 28/09/2023 20:51

I did my work EDI training today and one of the questions in it was about time off for medical appts. I could have sworn you can't be discriminated against for taking these in the workplace. Say, eg, you're a menopausal woman who needs to attend a GP appt due to symptoms, they can't sack you for attending those, even if the only appts are in work time.

Only if you have a disability.

Tryingtryingandtrying · 28/09/2023 20:59

@ilovepixie why did you test/tell them you bad covid?

user1846385927482658 · 28/09/2023 21:00

FFSWhatToDoNow · 28/09/2023 20:57

Only if you have a disability.

Show quote history

Only if it counts as a reasonable adjustment.

RosesAndHellebores · 28/09/2023 21:01

Routine dr/dentist/hospital appointments no legal right to time off. I usually ask staff to make up the time. However most of my staff give more than they take so I let it go.

Hospital procedures, barium meal, colonoscopy, etc., can be taken as sick.

Different rules if it relates to something covered by the Equality Act and recognised formally as a disability, for example, therapy/counselling, or a check up whennin remission from cancer, etc.

It seems reasonable to me. The contract of employment requires an agreed number of hours to be rendered in exchange for money. This often seems to be forgotten.

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 28/09/2023 21:02

I work for the NHS.

Any medical appointments, we have to make the time up.

Daffodilwoman · 28/09/2023 21:03

I needed an emergency dental appointment. I had to take annual leave.
My doctors are shit, no other way of putting it. I just didn’t attend my check up fit HRT as I want prepared to use annual leave. The surgery are always sending literature out about how flexible they are, how they have evening and weekend clinics blah blah blah. Yet when I requested an appointment after 5pm, on a weekend, or lunch time I was told they don’t use these appointments for people like me.
No, what the idiots do is covid jabs for those aged 75 years and above on a weekend. Lunchtime appointments are reserved for the doctor to visit the elderly too.
Coincidently I’ve been sent a survey to complete about my doctor’s surgery. I won’t be holding back.
I can’t work flexi time either. My boss doesn’t like it.

gotomomo · 28/09/2023 21:07

I've always had some flexibility from work but I have never expected to take time off and not make it up. Obviously some appointments aren't flexible but I always try to keep them to either end of the day. I currently work 25 hours a week so it's easier for me to make up hours than full time workers

user1846385927482658 · 28/09/2023 21:07

It seems reasonable to me. The contract of employment requires an agreed number of hours to be rendered in exchange for money. This often seems to be forgotten.

Employers owe their existence to wider society and therefore have a greater responsibility to that society. This should be remembered.

The argument that humans are disposable monetary units is distasteful.