Re MMR, am on the brink, are single measles vaccines dodgier?

[bohemianbint]

I posted re MMR a while back and it was really useful to get so much feedback. However, have been paralysed by indecision ever since.

I decided I'd like to give DS the single measles jab (as I think that's what we got in the 70's) and I wasn't overly worried about the mumps and rubella. However, I do want DS to have some immunity to measles as it scares me; my sister had it badly and it really affected her eyesight.

However, I'm told the single measles jab isn't licensed in this country - you can get it but there have been no trials on it. This to me sounds more worrying than the MMR.

So I have come round full circle and am debating getting the MMR tomorrow. It seems to be a choice, realistically, between MMR and no immunity to measles at all, which I'm not sure I want to risk.

Oh, I dunno, I'm just wondering if anyone has any words of wisdom for me as I don't want to end up doing nothing, not out of choice but out of complete paralysis!

www.jabs.org has a list of clinics where you can get the single vaccines. I went to Brakespeare in Hemel Hempstead .

On those stats Highjlander - if MMR is 96% effective why do health officials talk about the 10% whose MMRs are not effective?

Cheers stuffit. I was hoping to find someone with mumps when DS is older and wave him in front of them for a bit. My sister actually had the MMR and got all 3 diseases so my confidence isn't great.

at your sister.. poor thing

but love the vision of child being waved about!

am now venturing into territory about which I know very little indeed.. but I do know there are people for whom vaccinations will never provoke that antibody response. Maybe your sister is one of them and ..(thin ice on controversial subject) is it possible the resistance might be genetic so others in the family could be the same? Have no idea how to get the answers to these questions...

StrageTown, I also found a clinic via Jabs.org - we went to a clinic in Blackheath ? Greenwich?

Thanks - I've looked on there and seen a couple in Manchester so will check them out nearer the time.

You can get a blood test to check your immunity. I had a test for rubella immunity when I was in my early 20's because I'm not vaccinated (but I have immunity, so I must have had rubella), and a friend got her ds tested for measles antibodies because she didn't want him to have boosters unless he needed them. Both tests were on the NHS.

Hi, I am posting this here as it is the most recent thread on vaccines. This is an email I received from my BIL today.

" www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1216 and es.groups.yahoo.com/group/demanda_judicial_mercurio/ - keep an eye on this - it could be really significant as the parents of vaccine damaged kids were denied legal aid, and Doctors/researchers here who know the truth are still too scared to take on the medical establishment and the pharmacutical companies. Parents in the USA have just begun to take out ads in mainstream papers e.g. www.generationrescue.org/pdf/080212.pdf to question the percieved wisdom of their government's vaccination policy.

By the way the latest study which concluded that there is no link between MMR and autism is total crap - they looked at the wrong kids, and did the wrong tests etc. See www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1203 for Wakefield's response to this, and news.scotsman.com/opinion/Time-for-honest-assessment-of.3757862.jp for Bill Walsh of the Autism Treatment Trust. Bill's short letter in the Daily Record - www.dailyrecord.co.UK/comment/your-letters/2008/02/07/letter-your-view-autism-scandal-86908-20311449 / - is more concise and to the point:

"The new study being brandished by the Department of Health as proof of MMR safety is the latest in a long list of inconclusive and irrelevant scientific papers. Its authors tested the wrong children, carried out the wrong tests, investigated the wrong hypothesis and came to the wrong conclusion. One child in 100 in the UK has now been diagnosed with autism. It is high time parents were told what causes autism, not what doesn't. Arrogant government propaganda like this only makes people more distrustful".

See www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1209 for some science you won't be able to read about in the mainstream press. It seems like the capitalist bastards now have total control of the media and journalists here are not allowed to ask questions anymore. Certainly the case with the Times, Guardian and BBC anyway, who just put out Dept of Health press releases without querying one word. It doesn't occur to them that the Government could be trying to coverup the largest ever public health disaster which would cost them billions in compensation if they ever admitted it. Ben Goldacre (Guardian Badscience column writer) still refuses to admit/declare that the prize he won for his Best Science article (in which he targetted Wakefield and defended MMR), was funded by SmithKline Glaxo et al. Likewise SenseaboutScience (which claims to be an independent media watchdog/charity, and are staunch advocates/defenders of MMR and GM foods etc) is actually run by a bunch of quasi New Labour researchers and primarily funded by corporate interests. The world is not as it seems. "

impressive posting shitemum

stuffit - impressive copying and pasting skills you mean! Neither we nor my sister and BIL have vaccinated our kids (tho may give certain ones in the future) but BIL is far better than us at actually keeping up-to-date and informed on the whole issue.

"I was hoping to find someone with mumps when DS is older and wave him in front of them for a bit"

OP - I can understand you need to find out more about vaccination before you decide whether to get your son vaccinated, but
isn't it dangerous for a boy to get mumps after puberty?
Also, why are you afraid of measles, but not of mumps or rubella for your child? All of them can also have very serious consequences or side-effects. We rarely see children with these diseases here and we have forgotten how serious they can be.
I also think that there is a desire to pin autism on one cause, and that it is much more complicated than we know yet. More research is needed.
and yes of course "the world is not what it seems" you can see it seems different to us all.

Ok, maybe that should be 'the world is not necessarily the way the governments and health services present it'.
My personal maxim is 'Question everything'.

Oh I was agreeing with you shitemum. Keep on questioning. More debate and more research is the only way to find out more about safety of vaccines and reasons for autism.

I got DD the separate jabs as she had a strange reaction to the polo and whooping cough ones.
I checked with the doctors and they said that it is the carrier used in the MMR that is likely to cause reactions, not the actual vaccines.
The single vaccines use a different carrier and so would not produce the same sort of reaction.
I also had her immunised against chicken pox while I was at it.
Cost a fortune tho' (£150 a go!) but this was Harley Street.
I found a good paedatrician by asking one of the part time doctors at the local NHS surgery who is also in private practice and he said "I can't officially recommend the single vaccine but if I wanted to get single vaccines for my child I would see X" which was a good way of doing it.
Remember it will be price per injection and they have to be given separately over a number of weeks so it's three trips and three lots of charges. Advantage is that you can ask other child related questions while you are there and get your money's worth.
DD had no reaction whatsoever to any of the jabs (except crying when the needle went in of course) and loved the private waiting room with its foot playing piano on the floor etc, so you can see where your money is going!
They also have Tb and all sorts of things the NHS does not dish out (like the chicken pox one) so you increase your options.

We had ds's singles at the Brakespear in Hemel Hempstead. They gave us the packs so we had batch numbers and everything just in case there was ever a problem - sometimes with any drugs an alert goes out to doctors saying uh-oh, we've just discovered problem x or y. I found that reassuring in that if there is ever any reason, we can trace exactly what ds had.

(Brakespear were recommended by my HV, btw, which surprised me. And by several MNers.)

bohemianbint - the government is deliberately frightening people in this country against single jabs, saying they are unlicenced, may not have been stored correctly etc etc. Whilst the incorrect storage is true of some shoddy organisations, most of it is scaremongering designed to frighten you into getting the MMR. It is absolutely disgraceful. The vaccines used where I went are fully licenced in Europe and/or America. Like anything, you have to choose somewhere that you have checked out/had recommended and done a bit of research. The government is deliberately making this difficult.

I had my DS's singles done at Breakspear (www.breakspearmedical.com/files/mmr.html). It was personally recommended to us (by a lawyer who had worked on the MMR stuff and chosen the singles at Breakspear for his own kids). Additionally, other MNers have used it.

My DS had the measles jab and had a textbook reaction to it - got a few little spots a week(ish) later, they went away after 3 days and he was absolutely fine. This is a indication that the jab worked, although you don't have to get the reaction to prove the jab worked (which they will also do a blood test for if you wish & pay).

Government policy is for all kids to have MMR, even though it is not safe for a tiny minority of kids. The government is trying to protect the vast majority with absolutely no regard for the tiny UNIDENTIFIABLE minority. I worried my DS was in this minority as there is (non MMR related) autism in my family. I also know a girl who had severe adverse effects from MMR, so I was not prepared to take the [small] risk for my DS.

Really good posts, thanks everyone. Will look into Breakspear and see if they're in Manchester.

Coming back to Hathor's point - as far as I'm aware measles is the worst of the 3 for young children; I'm not sure of the stats but don't 1 in 10 kids who get measles go on to have serious complications? Plus from having seen my sister have it so badly it's one I'm keen to avoid.

With the mumps, I had it at 7, and whilst it wasn't a nice couple of days, it wasn't the end of the world, and if DS gets it as a young child I'm assuming it's just one of those irritating but not near fatal childhood diseases. Re rubella, I don't know if I'd bother at all. If I had a daughter I'd make sure she had it but probably as a single like it was when I was at school.

I completely agree with your post Crokky.

Bugger, breakspear miles away. Is there anything similar in Manchester?

My dd had single dose jabs. She had rubella at age 2 in Harley STreet as they felt that was more important to get first. She then had the measles jab aged 3, same clinic but located somewhere else in London.
Very happy with it all, cost a lot of £
I am not anti immunisation, but anti all those things at the same time. My neice had the mmr, got chicken pox and the px damaged her brain. Not the mmr but the whole thing.
My Dr was unsupportive in as that they said I would have to dial 999 if dd had a reaction, they would not help at all, but otherwise were fine.
It was scary to be honest.
Also, the single jabs, you only need 1 dose of each, and they didnt recommend she had the mumps jab.
Good luck with your decision.

Sadly you can't trust our health authorities. I know this to be the case from personal experience. Medical mishap, including vaccine damage, is covered up. The authorities will go to huge lengths to bury any medical negligence (hopefully not at the same time as burying the patient...).

They have infinite resources - taxpayers money - in which to fund clinical complaints departments (ie: cover up hospital bungles) and fight each and every negligence claim, however valid, with top-notch legal teams (again, paid for by the tax-payer).

The injured patient does not have such resources. Legal aid is available for injured children but this is no guarantee of "access to justice" - the lawyers and medical experts who are supposed to be on your side collude with the cover-up and distort the truth (in fact lie through their teeth).

In the case of vaccine damage, it is even more difficult (ie impossible) to gain any redress - the damage is denied and legal aid is not available.

The whole vaccine issue is fraught with hazards and contradictions. For instance, shortly after refusing the TB jab for my children at school, it was in any case withdrawn as a routine jab. So one week, we are being urged to ensure that our children have a particular jab, the next week we are being told they don't need it, without any explanations. It's all barmy - I think they make it up as they go along. But my children are certainly not going to be their guinea pigs.