Has anyone here experienced a marked and permanent difference in their child after the MMR?

[CrushWithEyeliner]

I know this is a loaded question and may be very sensitive for some of you here so I really appreciate your responses. DD is due to have her jab in 4 weeks and like many I have very mixed feelings.

I think most people worry about this. There still is no real proven fact to any links but i'm very dubious. Having said that all 4dc had mmr without ill effect. dc4 did start banging his head on things afterwards, he'd never done this before and i was petrified! It lasted a few days so was obviously a phase that many go through im told.

We put DS1's MMR off, at the time the whole MMR thing was rife. He had it done very late at 4 years old. No change of behaviour at all.

DS1's was due a couple of weeks ago. He will have it around 18 months-ish, maybe a bit sooner. Would just rather, for my own personal peace of mind not let him have it along with other innoculations.

There are several people on here who have. The best thing is to search and you'll find their stories.

If you see the new study out supposedly 'proving' the safety of MMR bear in mind it is a pile of bollocks, makes no attempt to look for subgroups, doesn't test Wakefield's hypothesis and looked for measles virus in children with autism but without autistic enterocolitis (no-one has suggested it would be present in autistic children without autistic enterocolitis). It also seemed suprised to find no sign of autistic enterocolitis in 98 children with autism (and since its only believed to affect about 7% of the autistic population that's not exactly surprising either).

I can only assume the researchers haven't actually read Wakefield et al's work (as its really not that hard to understand).

More wasted time and money. God knows how such poor research gets published.

I was petrified that it would affect her negatively, but she was fine. I did delay it until she was five, in fact delayed all of them but not all so long. Seemed prudent to let her little body mature just a bit beforehand. She's now six and fully vaccinated, and rarely sick as well.

Btw I did do much research and consultation with her paed before making the decision to delay.

my friend had her son jabbed, he went from a perfectly well behaved child to a child who bangs his head on the floor all the time DOES NOT sleep, cannot talk even though he is nearly threea nd is currently undergoing investigations for autism, they have him at a special creche in the hospital just one day a week so they can watch him play and see how he interacts etc

Yes - mine did.
perfectly, perfectly ok before but MMR at 18 months and diagnosed profoundly asd within months.The difference in him was noticeable within weeks.
I have absoloutely no doubt that the vaccine triggered my sons problems ( although I don't think it was the sole 'cause' iyswim)

I have posted the details before so you might want to search. If not I can tell you again but I am boring myself now .
You are welcome to ask any questions.

I believe I saw marked changes in ds's behaviour post MMR.

He didn't have the first MMR until he was 3. He is 4 this month and seems more typical now; he has gone through a massive development phase in the last month or so.

I think I'll wait for a bit for hte booster.

Thank-you everyone. What a difficult decision with massive consequences.
Pagwatch you are not boring at all, may I ask if you left it until 18m due to concerns you had about vaccinating at 13m or whenever they advise? DD is this age and I feel like her brain mechanisms are not fully developed so was thinking of waiting until 2.5. Do you think this would have any difference?
Also do you know if they would be OK with me holding back or can they then refuse to vaccinate DD "later" iyswim.

There was a massive survey done in Japan which showed the number of kids with autism following the introduction of MMR and without MMR and there was NO DIFFERENCE. They looked at millions of kids. But thanks to Wakefield there are some mums who blame the MMR. Statistically it does not make sense.You cannot do a proper survey with under 100 patients.

However we all need to feel someone/something is to blame for the unexplained terrible diseases/conditions our children have.

My dd has a very rare and life threatening condition which occured at 5 months old, no-one knows why. I could blame 101 things that were going on at the time including vaccinations and I have done. Its human nature. But that doesn't make it so.

Crush
I am actually not sure why I left it so late. I think I was just disorganised but i do remember being a little concerned about the fact that he had excema.
The whole vaccination schedule is based on averages and cnvenience for the NHS ( nothing wrong with that ) but you are free to amend the schedule to suit you. My DD is 5 and remains unvaccinated. Her GP is perfectly relaxed and has stressed I am welcome to review at any time.

Microwave. Actually that study makes absoloutely no difference whatsoever as the withdrew the MMR but replaced it with the single vaccines given on top of each other - which would react in exactly the same way.
I didn't know about Wakefield when I first went to the GP with my sons regression so you theory does not apply in my case.
I only found out about the link because I found he improved when I removed certain foods from his diet and when I investigated why on earth that should be I stumbled on the gut link.
Do you think you could drop your sweeping assumption about blame? You may feel the need to blame someone. Personally I don't. what happened to my son was a sad cumulation of events and circumstances. No one intended my son any harm. I just wish people would stop being so patronising about mothers who are often perfectly reasoned about what happened to their children.
My son is gorgeous and I would not be without him. What happened to him was sad and I would be very happy if no other mothers had to go through that. But I am just a mother. What do I know.

Yes in Japan the single jabs were given on the same day when the MMR was withdrawn. And anyway the Japanese figures made no attempt to identify sub groups - bah de blah- all the usual things that weren't done but would need to be if someone was actually interested in testing Wakefield's hypothesis.

i had a bit of a strained conversation with hv at dd's 2 year check last week, as she hasn't had her first yet and ds (who is 5yo) hasn't had pre-school booster. I am happy for them to have them, but want to wait until they're a little older. hv was saying i must get them booked in and i stated quite markedly that i don't actually have to have them at all.
chat to your hv or gp if you're not sure, even if it's just about having them a ittle later.

Has anyone noticed a difference in their child's behaviour after giving MMR really late?
DS1 has had the single vaccines, about a year apart (measle first) but hasn't had the pre-school booster and he's 5.5. I'm wondering whether giving the jab when he's older would make a difference.
DS2 has only had the measles jab and I know I need to sort out the others sooner rather than later.

pagwatch I must admit I hate conspiracy theories they get me all ranty and I can't go with the idea of the govnt knowingly putting millions of kids at risk..so I can't understand why Wakefield is the only doctor on the whole of the globe interested in identifying this sub-group? Or is there other work going on that only those who are affected recognise?

Wakefield is far from the only person studying this sort of stuff. It is very difficult to get funding now though (if you know anything about how research is funded you will understand why).

Wakefield is one of the few doctors in the UK who had the skills to examine this group. My local doctors have been unable to x-ray ds1, take his blood pressure or even look in his mouth. Since Wakefield has gone there are very few remaining who actually have the practical skills to scope severely autistic children. Which is why parents now have to go to the States if they want it done (and a surprising number do- they want their children treated for the painful condition they have). There is Simon Murch but he is under similar sorts of pressures to Wakefield, although I do know people who have managed to see him.

Other researchers have ignored the existence of a sub-group. This classification of autism as 'one thing' is a major problem throughout the autism literature imo- and has effects on policy making and funding in almost every aspect of education/health and social care. That does need to change.

2 Dcs, no permanent effects at all.

I should add though that I delayed a few times because of colds etc. until in my opinion, they were 100% healthy.

Microwaveonly -there is in fact a quiet acceptance amongst even NHS paeds & some GP's that in a small group of children the MMR was the trigger for their Autism.
The sad fact is that none of them feel able to discuss it publicly or openly give advice to concerned parents that goes against the latest NHS direct of meeting targets for vaccinated children.

That's true mymate. My friend's paed has told her the MMR was probably the trigger in her child's case.

Is anyone able to say what the characteristics are of children who seem to be most at risk?

bump

my ds is 3 and gets constant colds that last for ages. Imo that means his immune system is compromised at some level a lot of the time. Therefore I would not let him have the MMR, but will opt for single vaccines (not on top of each other) when he is cold-free. Measles first, then rubella, mumps last.

I guess this is the billion dollar question!

I agree it def seems sensible not to bombard a child with a load of unexpected diseases when they are not very well. I've heard things about 'leaky guts' but don't really know what that means. It's so hard to know what to do. I suggested to the nurse that I was putting off DD's MMR until I felt her gut and digestive system generally was more mature. She looked at me like I was nuts!

oh gawd don't try discussing it with a medical professional unless they're really interested (my last GP was, and ds1's current paed is). If you just tell them what you're doing. "She'll have it but not quite yet I'd rather she was older" then they're fine. You don't get any hassle (or at least I never have).

Whatever you do, don't make a decision based on reading an Internet thread.

As for all these doctors who quietly think that there is a link and have some reason for thinking it, I think they are shameless for keeping quiet. But perhaps they're just an urban myth.